# Christians afraid of Christmas being co-opted **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167 "2004-12-16T16:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/21 "2004-12-16T20:04:32Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The hypocracy in our case comes from the fact that Christmas is a federal holiday, and yet the government isn’t supposed to proomote the actual (religious) celebration in support of the holiday. Personally, I don’t see a big difference between having it as an official holiday, and putting a manger scene on the WH lawn. We don’t get Dec 25th off because it’s “Holiday”, we get it off becasue it’s “Christmas”. What mean “we”? I’ll be getting off work at five o’clock on Dec. 24, and scurrying off to church and hoping that I can catch at least the second half of the pageant. Then I get to get up on Christmas Day and go to work. In seven years of living in Vegas I think I’ve had Christmas off once, while I was working at Wal-Mart. Just because it’s a federal holiday doesn’t mean “we” have it off. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/22 "2004-12-16T20:05:19Z")
Not being able to offer the greeting of “Merry Christmas” without reprimand is going rather far beyond a “slight derivation” don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be protected under free speech at the very least? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/23 "2004-12-16T20:12:02Z")
ooooo. 50 complaints or inquires, huh? How many schools do you reckon there are in the U.S.? A handful of overly cautious administrators, who are likely religious themselves, making some overbroad or incorrect guidelines do not an oppression make. [Read and Learn.](http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLiberty.cfm?ID=9007&c=139) > [@](#): > > Religious Holidays > 14. Generally, public schools may teach about religious holidays, and may celebrate the secular aspects of the holiday and objectively teach about their religious aspects. They may not observe the holidays as religious events. Schools should generally excuse students who do not wish to participate in holiday events. Those interested in further details should see [Religious Holidays in the Public Schools: Questions and Answers](http://www.clsnet.org/clrfPages/pubs/pubs_holida5.php), a pamphlet published by a broad spectrum of religious and civil liberties groups. > [@](#): > > Religion in the Public School Curriculum: Questions and Answers is sponsored jointly by: > > American Academy of Religion, Department of Religion, 501 Hall of Languages, Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-1170 > American Association of School Administrators, 1801 N. Moore St., Arlington, VA 22209 > American Federation of Teachers, 555 New Jersey Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20001 > American Jewish Committee, 165 E. 56th St., New York, NY 10022 > American Jewish Congress, 15 E. 84th St., New York, NY 10028-0407 > Americans United Research Foundation, 900 Silver Spring Ave., Silver Spring, MD 20910 > Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 1250 N. Pitt St., Alexandria, VA 22314 > Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs, 200 Maryland Ave. NE, Washington, DC 20002 > Christian Legal Society, 4208 Evergreen Lane, Suite 222, Annandale, VA 22003 > The Islamic Society of North America, PO Box 38, Plainfield, IN 46168 > National Association of Evangelicals, 1023 15th St. NW, Suite 500, Washington, DC 20005 > National Conference of Christians and Jews, 71 5th Ave., New York, NY 10003 > National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA, 475 Riverside Drive, New York, NY 10115 > National Council on Religion and Public Education, Iowa State University, E262 Lagomarcino Hall, Ames, Iowa 50011 > National Council for the Social Studies, 3501 Newark St. NW, Washington, DC 20016 > National Education Association, 1201 16th St. NW, Washington, DC 20036 > National School Boards Association, 1680 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314 Get some perspective, man. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/24 "2004-12-16T20:12:26Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > The name “Christmas” presents a slight complication in embracing a completely secularized **version** of the **multi-faceted** holiday **season** , but then again it’s just a word and need not be taken any further than that in official references to the Dec 25th holiday. So then you have no problem with signs saying “Merry Christmas,” or carols referencing the birth of Christ? They are, after all, “only words.” ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/25 "2004-12-16T20:23:07Z")
That’s one source, **Homebrew**. How many more sources do you want before the sarcasm abates? Additionally, I’m not really interested in policy supported by a group who backs the existence of NAMBLA. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/26 "2004-12-16T20:23:18Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > I’m curious, **squeels** if you listen to national news regarding the joy suckage. > > A quick google reveals [this 2001 source:](http://www.hvk.org/articles/1201/105.html) > > •A Frederick County, Maryland, school employee was told by an administrator that employees would be banned from handing out Christmas cards in the school because cards with a Christian message “may not be a legally protected right on a public school campus.” > > •A fourth-grader in Ephrata, Pennsylvania, was prohibited from handing out religious Christmas cards to classmates. > > •Two middle school students in Rochester, Minnesota, were disciplined for wearing red and green scarves in a Christmas skit and for ending the skit by saying, “We hope you all have a merry Christmas.” > > • Two ninth-graders in Plymouth, Massachusetts, were told they could not create Christmas cards that say “Merry Christmas” or depict a nativity scene. > > •A teacher in Plymouth, Illinois, was warned by her principal not to read a book about Christmas to her second-grade students. The book was in the school’s library. > > •The superintendent of the Silverton, Oregon, school district had students remove all “religious” holiday decorations from their lockers but allowed secular decorations. > > •The county school board in Covington, Georgia, deleted the word “Christmas” from the school calendar after the American Civil Liberties Union threatened legal action. > > •“We’re getting besieged,” said John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, a Charlottesville, Virginia-based organization that provides legal help in cases involving religious bias said his group has received at least 50 complaints or inquiries, including the above examples, about situations in which students or teachers were told that various Christmas decorations or messages were banned at their schools. > > Not so fringe. A lot of these kinds of stories are distorted or exaggerated or false. Some of them may indeed represent a misunderstanding of the law by schools. We’d have to see the details of each story on a case by case basis to see if there are any real violations but it should be understood that they would be just that- _violations_. It is not _legal_ for schools to interfere with voluntary religious practices as long as they don’t initiate or lead such activity. Reading purely _prima facie_, I find some of your anecdotes rather dubious and others quite sensible (a teacher should _not_ be reading Christmas glurge at defenseless children in a public school classroom). In general, though, there is no pogrom going on in public schools against the poor little Christians. The vast majority of teachers and adminstrators are Christians themselves. Just because you can’t foist your beliefs on others doesn’t mean you’re being discriminated against. As to the OP. I’m oretty sure that no one is forcing Christians to secualrize Christmas and I don’t see how it’s any of their business what anyone else does. What’s what’s really pissing some of them off is that they see "Holidays"and Christmas stuff all over the place, decorations, Santa, bells, holly, etc, They see commercials and sales, but they don’t see anything that’s overt;y _religious_. They don’t see Christmas sales that mention the “birth of our Lord.” and that’s what they want. They want overtly religious preaching with their Christmases. It irks them that so much of the country happily celebrates Christmas as a secular holday with little or no attention to ancient nativity myths. Why it irks them, I’m not sure but it drives them up the wall. I guess they think they stole the holiday fair and square and they don’t want any “secularists” celberating it without their permission or without praying to their God. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/27 "2004-12-16T20:26:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What’s what’s really pissing some of them off is that they see "Holidays"and Christmas stuff all over the place, decorations, Santa, bells, holly, etc, They see commercials and sales, but they don’t see anything that’s overt;y _religious_. They don’t see Christmas sales that mention the “birth of our Lord.” and that’s what they want. They want overtly religious preaching with their Christmases. It irks them that so much of the country happily celebrates Christmas as a secular holday with little or no attention to ancient nativity myths. Why it irks them, I’m not sure but it drives them up the wall. I guess they think they stole the holiday fair and square and they don’t want any “secularists” celberating it without their permission or without praying to their God. Cite for your mindreading? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/28 "2004-12-16T20:36:06Z")
All you have to do is listen to Christian radio. That’s what they bitch about. They don’t see Jesus at the mall and it bugs them. They say so themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/29 "2004-12-16T20:41:51Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So then you have no problem with signs saying “Merry Christmas,” or carols referencing the birth of Christ? They are, after all, “only words.” I’m an atheist of Hindu background who has celebrated Christmas every year since I can remember. I love the holiday and the spirits and the specials and the decorations and the whole atmosphere. I have no problem saying “Merry Christmas” in the same way that I have no problem in saying “Id Mubarak.” The actual meanings of those phrases mean nothing to me anyway and I just consider them expressions of good cheer. On the other hand, I believe that government has no business in even giving the appearance of giving recognition to the symbols of any religion. Therefore, I would prefer that the federal government come up with a name other than “Christmas” for the Dec. 25 holiday, but it really doesn’t bug me much. I also believe that signs saying “Merry Christmas” should not be displayed on government property, although “Seasons Greetings” would be fine by me (when I do send Christmas cards, that’s what mine say). However, I think it’s just too egregious for nativity scenes to be displayed on public property. Do all the other stuff – trees, Santa, whatever, but depictions of Jesus are just not appropriate. Again, I have nothing against nativity scenes – when they are displayed on private property that’s just fine, and I can even find myself admiring the artistry and the spirit of the thing, even if I don’t believe any of it as far as dogma goes – it can still be nice, in the way that I can still admire a turn of phrase from the Authorized Version. Some things can be universal if you let them and don’t try to force them on people. As far as Christmas cards go, I think kids should be allowed to do what they want, but teachers and other government employees should refrain from handing out anything with a religious message or image. When I do see a nativity scene on public property, I get an urge to go back to my Hindu roots and demand that the local government allow me to display religious depictions that are traditional for my background – Durga Puja and Kali Puja, the two most important religious occasions for Bengali Hindus take place in the fall. Durga is depicted as a 10-armed woman; each hand holds a weapon, one of which is a spear whose point is plunging into the chest of Mahishashur, the buffalo demon. Durga is accompanied by her four children, one of which is the elephant-headed Ganesh. Kali is depicted as a voluptuous, naked, black-skinned woman with unbound hair. She wears only a belt made of human arms and a necklace of skulls. She has four hands: one holds a bloodied curved sword, one a freshly-severed human head. Her blood-red long tongue hangs out (in shame, perhaps, but perhaps in bloodthirst) and she stands on the prone, pale body of her husband, Shib. Hey, if it’s okay to show a nativity scene on public property, then it should be just fine to put these up at well. I rub my hands in glee imagining whitebread Americans and their tow-headed kinder coming face to face with Mother Kali when they go to renew their vehicle registrations. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/30 "2004-12-16T20:42:32Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > I’m not really interested in policy supported by a group who backs the existence of NAMBLA. That’s a pretty convoluted stance. I didn’t like John Kerry’s lack of support for gay marriage, but I voted for him anyway, eh? And anyhoo, should groups that support changes in the laws not have a right to exist, simply because you don’t agree with their policy views? Should NORML not have a right to exist for supporting pot legalization? Should the Kato institute not have a right to exist for supporting lower taxes? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/31 "2004-12-16T20:43:34Z")
O’Reilly is on a rampage these days to expose the “secularization of Christmas”. I don’t know how representative that view is of his listenners, but I don’t think he’d be beating the drum so loudly if it weren’t. And I want to know what \*\*DtC \*\*is doing listenning to Christian Radio… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/32 "2004-12-16T20:54:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > O’Reilly is on a rampage these days to expose the “secularization of Christmas”. I don’t know how representative that view is of his listenners, but I don’t think he’d be beating the drum so loudly if it weren’t. > > And I want to know what \*\*DtC \*\*is doing listenning to Christian Radio… 🙂 Morbid fascination. Same reason I watch Bill O’Reilly or occasionally peruse the Free Republic Message Board. I am paradoxically attracted to the viewpoints that I most disagree with. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/33 "2004-12-16T20:56:45Z")
There is absolutely no use arguing against someone who pulls out a gun as huge and ineffective as NAMBLA in dismissing an ACLU cite. That’s a weapon with lots of loud but no bullet. And now I remember why I haven’t missed your presence in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/34 "2004-12-16T20:58:19Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > That’s a pretty convoluted stance. I didn’t like John Kerry’s lack of support for gay marriage, but I voted for him anyway, eh? > > And anyhoo, should groups that support changes in the laws not have a right to exist, simply because you don’t agree with their policy views? Should NORML not have a right to exist for supporting pot legalization? Should the Kato institute not have a right to exist for supporting lower taxes? Should I not have a right to ignore an organization who’s policies and tactics I don’t agree with? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/35 "2004-12-16T21:00:03Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > Additionally, I’m not really interested in policy supported by a group who backs the existence of NAMBLA. Hmm. Would that be the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs, the National Association of Evangelicals or the National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA? Or did you miss the list: > [@](#): > > Organizational Signers of “Religion in the Public Schools: A Joint Statement of Current Law” > > American Civil Liberties Union > American Ethical Union > American Humanist Association > American Jewish Committee > American Jewish Congress > American Muslim Council > Americans for Religious Liberty > Americans United for Seperation of Church and State > Anti-Defamation League > Baptist Joint Committee > B’nai B’rith > Christian Legal Society > Christian Science Church > Church of Scientology International > Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, > Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs > Federation of Reconstructionist Congregations and Havurot > Friends Committee on National Legislation > General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists > Guru Gobind Singh Foundation > Interfaith Alliance > Interfaith Impact for Justice and Peace > National Association of Evangelicals > National Council of Churches > National Council of Jewish Women > National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council (NJCRAC) > National Ministries, American Baptist Churches, USA > National Sikh Center > North American Council for Muslim Women > People for the American Way > Presbyterian Church (USA) > Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints > Union of American Hebrew Congregations > Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations > United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society In addition, their stance was in support of the First Amendment, not of NAMBLA per se. > [@](#): > > ACLU Statement on Defending Free Speech of Unpopular Organizations > > August 31, 2000 > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > NEW YORK–In the United States Supreme Court over the past few years, the American Civil Liberties Union has taken the side of a fundamentalist Christian church, a Santerian church, and the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. In celebrated cases, the ACLU has stood up for everyone from Oliver North to the National Socialist Party. In spite of all that, the ACLU has never advocated Christianity, ritual animal sacrifice, trading arms for hostages or genocide. In representing NAMBLA today, our Massachusetts affiliate does not advocate sexual relationships between adults and children. > > What the ACLU does advocate is robust freedom of speech for everyone. The lawsuit involved here, were it to succeed, would strike at the heart of freedom of speech. The case is based on a shocking murder. But the lawsuit says the crime is the responsibility not of those who committed the murder, but of someone who posted vile material on the Internet. The principle is as simple as it is central to true freedom of speech: those who do wrong are responsible for what they do; those who speak about it are not. > > It is easy to defend freedom of speech when the message is something many people find at least reasonable. But the defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one most people find repulsive. That was true when the Nazis marched in Skokie. It remains true today. Are you okay with the ACLU when it [defends a Christian Church](http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLiberty.cfm?ID=16295&c=142) from eviction by a city? What about when it [defends a relgious group’s right to equal use of public property](http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLiberty.cfm?ID=15897&c=141)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/36 "2004-12-16T21:03:22Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > Should I not have a right to ignore an organization who’s policies and tactics I don’t agree with? You can ignore whatever you want but it’s logically fallacious to assert that a cite is not reliable because the source of the cite once said something else that you morally disagreed with. It’s like if I said that GWB supports the death penalty, I find the death penalty morally reprehensible, therefore everything Bush says must be considered to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Biggles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@Mr.Biggles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Biggles)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/37 "2004-12-16T21:03:45Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > The very fact that Christmas, by law, is a national Holiday, is a direct governmental reference to Jesus. Therefore, since acknowledged by the State, it is appropriate to feature icons of Jesus or other religous notions in whatever sensible place the locals feel is acceptible. Freedom of religion, not from religion. > > I agree that no one is being prevented from enjoying and celebrating Christmas - but secularists sure do know how to suck the joy from the marrow of the season. Christmas is also a secular holiday throughout much of the world, including countries with small Christian populations, such as Japan. For that matter, in Christianity, the most important day is Easter. That day in fact is more religious than Christmas, because by definition it is the whole purpose of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/38 "2004-12-16T21:04:01Z")
> [@](#): > > And now I remember why I haven’t missed your presence in the last few years Cute. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/39 "2004-12-16T21:14:29Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s like if I said that GWB supports the death penalty, I find the death penalty morally reprehensible, therefore everything Bush says must be considered to be a lie. Doesn’t mean it’s a lie, it all depends on how important that one thing is to you, or how you think it shapes his policies, if at all. I abhor the ACLU for many reasons, not just the one. I only used their most egregious example. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167/40 "2004-12-16T21:22:41Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > I abhor the ACLU for many reasons, not just the one. I only used their most egregious example. So if you’re so hostile to protecting people’s first amendment rights, you should have no problem with outright banning of nativity scenes on public and private property as well then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-afraid-of-christmas-being-co-opted/280167.md?page=3)