# Christians Agasinst Beck. Will it help? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 19, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258 "2010-07-19T19:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/21 "2010-07-21T06:59:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You can’t be progressive and a preacher at the same time? [This lot](http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/about/board/) certainly seem to be both. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/22 "2010-07-21T07:02:07Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Father Charles Coughlin used it when naming his National Union For Social Justice and his publication Social Justice Weekly [Hitler Ate Sugar!](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/23 "2010-07-21T07:12:19Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Yes, that’s a broad array of social-justice progressive people. Not exactly a cross-section of religious America. No one ever said it was. What’s your point? > [@emarkp](#): > > It’s basically a blend of religion and politics and an extension of the White House. Why you would care what this group says is beyond me. :rolleyes: You know, we already have a very vocal religious right in America that is a blend of religion and politics, and, during the Bush years, was an extension of the White House. They speak for a minority of the total population, even of the population of traditional religious believers. And perforce we **have** to care what they say, on account of their clout. Well, religious progressives also are a minority – but they have no less legitimacy than the RR, no less claim to represent the true message of the Gospels, and no less claim to be taken as representative of “religious America.” ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/24 "2010-07-21T08:26:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You know, we already have a very vocal religious right in America that is a blend of religion and politics, and, during the Bush years, was an extension of the White House. They speak for a minority of the total population, even of the population of traditional religious believers. And perforce we **have** to care what they say, on account of their clout. Well, religious progressives also are a minority – but they have no less legitimacy than the RR, no less claim to represent the true message of the Gospels, and no less claim to be taken as representative of “religious America.” Jim Wallis is actually, right now an advisor to the President. And at the same time launching this assault on Glenn Beck. I don’t recall anything like this w/Bush. And last I checked, “Bush did it too” wasn’t exactly a bill of good health. The progressives are preaching collective salvation through government action. There are many interpretations of the Gospels, but none that I’m aware of translated as “give unto Caesar everything you have and then you’ll be saved”. Jesus taught about individual responsibilities, and individual salvation. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/25 "2010-07-21T08:35:40Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > You mean the one defending Glenn Beck written by…Glenn Beck’s executive producer? Yeah, that’s an unbiased assessment of the Beck/Wallis situation. Ah, so you read it? What did you think? I didn’t claim it was unbiased. But it accurately tracked what I heard when I listened to the show. What did you think about this part of it? > [@](#): > > To restate the obvious, some simply use the term “social justice” as a substitute for “outreach to the poor.” This is not the kind of “social justice” Glenn was talking about. **The fact that this term has been utilized for purposes other than good Christian charity is well documented. One scholar** explained it quite clearly: “it is true that term [has] been used by the right and the left for all kinds of ideological purposes that aren’t necessarily the purposes of Christ.” **That scholar was Jim Wallis**. > > But for Wallis to continue getting attention, he must act as if he believes Glenn is against churches helping the poor. Any honest observer would realize that isn’t the case. Is anyone on earth against charitable outreach to the poor? > > Certainly not Glenn. > > In his book [Arguing With Idiots](http://www.amazon.com/Arguing-Idiots-Small-Minds-Government/dp/1416595015), Glenn describes helping those less fortunate as an “obligation.” He wrote that capitalism “will inevitably fail if individuals stop caring about the welfare of others.” He just believes the bulk of the help should come from people like you and me, not government bureaucracy. When is the last time you felt charitable on April 15? See, Glenn’s book is a published source you could check. You don’t even have to buy it. You can go to the bookstore, verify the quote and then leave it on the shelf. Do you reject the simple facts presented in the piece? Do you reject Jim Wallis’ [own words](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/sally_quinn/2010/04/interview_with_jim_wallis_about_glenn_beck_and_social_justice.html) about how the phrase “social justice” has been used? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/26 "2010-07-21T13:32:01Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > The progressives are preaching collective salvation through government action. There are many interpretations of the Gospels, but none that I’m aware of translated as “give unto Caesar everything you have and then you’ll be saved”. Jesus taught about individual responsibilities, and individual salvation. Jesus also said, “If you would be perfect, sell everything you have, and give it to the poor, and follow me,” and, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.” And you can read in Acts how the early Christians practiced property-communism at the congregational level. There’s plenty in the New Testament for a leftist or progressive to cite. As for “collective salvation through government action,” the religious progressives are not so far as I can tell teaching that as “salvation” in a spiritual sense, though they are impelled in that direction by their sense of Christian ethics. In they sense they are aiming at, “collective salvation through goverment action” actually **works,** within limits – you can see the proof of that in every other industrialized democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/27 "2010-07-21T13:36:39Z")
Psst, don’t tell Beck about the early church at Jerusalem, in which all members shared their property or sold it and gave the proceeds to the church leaders for the welfare of everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/28 "2010-07-21T14:15:30Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Wallis is currently an advisor to President Obama. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/29 "2010-07-21T14:20:58Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Psst, don’t tell Beck about the early church at Jerusalem, in which all members shared their property or sold it and gave the proceeds to the church leaders for the welfare of everyone else. They called themselves the Jesus Commies. They are buring in hell as we speak. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/30 "2010-07-21T14:22:01Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Wallis is currently an advisor to President Obama. Are you shocked that he’s criticizing Beck? > > His [intentional distortion of what Beck has said about Social Justice](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/what_glenn_beck_meant_about_social_justice.html) is reprehensible. Seriously, read that link. It’s the whole issue in a nutshell. > > Father Charles Coughlin used it when naming his National Union For Social Justice and his publication Social Justice Weekly > > Faithful America was put together by [Faith in Public Life](http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/about/), which is a collection of Progressives masquerading as preachers. > > Jim Wallis: progressive advisor to President Obama, founder of Sojourners, says [voluntary charity isn’t enough (1:27 here)](http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-advisor-jim-wallis-explores-wealth-marxism-social-justice/comment-page-1/) and redistribution of wealth is “what the gospel is all about” (same link, 2:09) > > [Rabbi David Saperstein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Saperstein_(rabbi)): He has served as the director and chief legal counsel at the Union for Reform Judaism’s Religious Action Center for more than 30 years.[2] Saperstein succeeded Rabbi Richard G. Hirsch as leader of the Washington D.C.-based political lobbying arm of the North American Reform movement. There, he advocates on a **broad range of social justice issues**. He currently co-chairs the Coalition to Preserve Religious Liberty, and serves on the boards of the NAACP and **People For the American Way**. > > Melissa Rogers: [Served as chair of the President’s Advisory Council](http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/4972/97/) on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships > > Ricken Patel: founder of [avaaz.org](http://avaaz.org), leftist activist organization (current headline on the site as I read it now: NO MORE OFFSHORE DRILLING! [Really guys? No more offshore drilling?] > > Rev. [James A. Forbes, Jr.](http://www.rollingout.com/insidebusiness/entrepreneur-a-business-leader/8112-james-forbes-wants-to-know-whose-gospel.html): Forbes’ new book, _Whose Gospel?: A Concise Guide to Progressive Protestantism_, provides insight into the views espoused by the **progressive movement and how it aligns with the Bible**. Forbes took a moment to discuss what, in a nutshell, the movement means, and to touch on a couple of its hot-button views. –christian johnson > > He also hosts a show in Air America. > > Sister Catherine Pinkerton: [A lobbiest for NETWORK](http://anunslife.org/2008/09/03/sister-catherine-pinkertons-prayer-at-the-dnc/), a national catholic **social-justice lobby** in Washington, DC. The link includes her prayer at the DNC in 2008. > Yes, that’s a broad array of social-justice progressive people. Not exactly a cross-section of religious America. It’s basically a blend of religion and politics and an extension of the White House. Why you would care what this group says is beyond me. > > Oh, and before you respond, you did read the first link, right? So, just because one belongs to a liberal organization, they can’t have a legitimate complaint against Beck? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/31 "2010-07-21T18:20:15Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > One interesting point is that Beck is Mormon and some Christians say Mormons are not Christian because they believe in stuff like the Book of Mormon. [These Emissarians – they’re not **true** Saucerianists at **all!**](http://www.villagevoice.com/2007-05-22/news/campaign-season-on-planet-glox/) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/32 "2010-07-21T18:57:43Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Wallis is currently an advisor to President Obama. Are you shocked that he’s criticizing Beck? > > His [intentional distortion of what Beck has said about Social Justice](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/what_glenn_beck_meant_about_social_justice.html) is reprehensible. Seriously, read that link. It’s the whole issue in a nutshell. > > Father Charles Coughlin used it when naming his National Union For Social Justice and his publication Social Justice Weekly > > Faithful America was put together by [Faith in Public Life](http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/about/), which is a collection of Progressives masquerading as preachers. > > Jim Wallis: progressive advisor to President Obama, founder of Sojourners, says [voluntary charity isn’t enough (1:27 here)](http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-advisor-jim-wallis-explores-wealth-marxism-social-justice/comment-page-1/) and redistribution of wealth is “what the gospel is all about” (same link, 2:09) > > [Rabbi David Saperstein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Saperstein_(rabbi)): He has served as the director and chief legal counsel at the Union for Reform Judaism’s Religious Action Center for more than 30 years.[2] Saperstein succeeded Rabbi Richard G. Hirsch as leader of the Washington D.C.-based political lobbying arm of the North American Reform movement. There, he advocates on a **broad range of social justice issues**. He currently co-chairs the Coalition to Preserve Religious Liberty, and serves on the boards of the NAACP and **People For the American Way**. > > Melissa Rogers: [Served as chair of the President’s Advisory Council](http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/4972/97/) on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships > > Ricken Patel: founder of [avaaz.org](http://avaaz.org), leftist activist organization (current headline on the site as I read it now: NO MORE OFFSHORE DRILLING! [Really guys? No more offshore drilling?] > > Rev. [James A. Forbes, Jr.](http://www.rollingout.com/insidebusiness/entrepreneur-a-business-leader/8112-james-forbes-wants-to-know-whose-gospel.html): Forbes’ new book, _Whose Gospel?: A Concise Guide to Progressive Protestantism_, provides insight into the views espoused by the **progressive movement and how it aligns with the Bible**. Forbes took a moment to discuss what, in a nutshell, the movement means, and to touch on a couple of its hot-button views. –christian johnson > > He also hosts a show in Air America. > > Sister Catherine Pinkerton: [A lobbiest for NETWORK](http://anunslife.org/2008/09/03/sister-catherine-pinkertons-prayer-at-the-dnc/), a national catholic **social-justice lobby** in Washington, DC. The link includes her prayer at the DNC in 2008. > Yes, that’s a broad array of social-justice progressive people. Not exactly a cross-section of religious America. It’s basically a blend of religion and politics and an extension of the White House. Why you would care what this group says is beyond me. > > Oh, and before you respond, you did read the first link, right? I’m somewhat familiar with Jim Wallis having read a bunch of his articles and watched several interviews. I’m sure he and I would not agree on everything but I appreciate his efforts to balance the religious right by demonstrating that other Christians feel and believe differently. I also watched a week+ of Glen Beck because a conservative friend asked me not to judge him by the out takes we see on the Daily Show and other sources. That seemed fair. After that week my opinion didn’t change. It seems obvious to me that Beck has little regard for honesty, or accuracy in presenting facts and details. It’s like the Colbert Report except he doesn’t openly acknoweledge that it’s a sham. Christians can have an honest disagreement on exactly how Jesus wants them to help the poor and both can be sincere. Almost every Christian would agree that helping the poor is a key part of Jesus teachings. If the conservative Christians disagree with the liberal ones about how involved the goverment should be in that effort there’s room for an honest debate. Don’t be fooled into thinking Beck gives a crap about that. I read a couple of articles some critisizing Beck some Wallis and their perception of his desire for the goverment to dole out social justice. I thought this was interesting from [here](http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=5399) here’s what Beck said that pissed Wallis off. > [@](#): > > I’m begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them … are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words ‘social justice’ or ‘economic justice’ on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. > > Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes. I find that so broad a brush that its ludicrious and irresponsible. In fact he may have to stop being a Mormon [because of this](http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2010/03/rev-robert-thompson-jesus-is-glenn-becks-worst-nightmare-.html) > [@](#): > > Especially illuminating is a quote by Kent P. Jackson, associate dean of religion at Brigham Young University in a recent New York Times article: “My own experience as a believing Latter-day Saint over the course of 60 years is that I have seen social justice in practice in every L.D.S. congregation I’ve been in. People endeavor with all of our frailties and shortcomings to love one another and to lift up other people. So if that’s Beck’s definition of social justice, he and I are definitely not on the same team.” The blogger from the 1st link goes on to note > [@](#): > > Beck’s remarks were careless. As there is nothing inherently wrong with the social work that churches do among the poor. Actually it should be commended. Followers of Christ are to minister to the poor, the needy and the oppressed. The are to visit the sick and those in prison; they are to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, (Matthew 25:31-46). We are also to care for orphans and windows, (James 1:27). and then make the reasonable argument > [@](#): > > What should be done by the church is to reach out in compassion, what Wallis advocates is for the Church to lobby government to involve itself in the work of compassion and to bring “social and economic justice which is a legit point of disagreement and discussion. The significant error IMO is this > [@](#): > > It was unfortunate that Beck didn’t make that distinction. It isn’t just unfortunate. It’s intentional. Beck makes millions by feeding the fires of fear with divisive rhetoric day after day with little regard for honesty or accuracy If he wanted to point out the difference between social justice as a true and correct principle and social justice as means of expanding govermemnt power he could have. Instead he deliberatly chose less accurate and more inflamatory language. That’s his signiture move. He didn’t advise Christians to talk to their pastor about the aspects of social justice or what the governments role should be in social justice. He said, run away, leave the church. He’s a money motivated charlatan plain and simple and I encourage conservatives to find a more sincere voice. Wallis invited him to have a discussion. Said he’d go on Beck’s show to discuss it. Let’s see if Beck will invite him on to clarify the issue. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/33 "2010-07-21T19:13:16Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Jim Wallis is actually, right now an advisor to the President. And at the same time launching this assault on Glenn Beck. I don’t recall anything like this w/Bush. Disagreeing with Beck’s choice of words is not attacking him. In fact in one of your own links Wallis urges people to not attack Beck personally. He did “stop watching Beck” as a response to Beck’s urging people to flee their church. You might be interested in knowing that Bush made significant changes in tax money going to sponser faith based organizations. Check out [faith based initiatives](http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa012901a.htm) Sounds a lot like wealth redistirbution to me. Alert Beck! He may want to mention how much it sucks and how dangerous it is to real Americans. > [@](#): > > The progressives are preaching collective salvation through government action. There are many interpretations of the Gospels, but none that I’m aware of translated as “give unto Caesar everything you have and then you’ll be saved”. Jesus taught about individual responsibilities, and individual salvation. Once again your own links fail to make your point. In the video that trys to make Wallis out to be a extremist he commemts on the megachurches not doing enough to help the poor. Is that an unreasonable? He also says there nothing wrong with prosperity. He may have to surrender his communist membership for that. His point is that there is something wrong with huge discrepncies in wealth when the mega rich ignore poverty. That sounds completely in line with what JC taught to me. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/34 "2010-07-21T19:17:32Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Do you reject the simple facts presented in the piece? Do you reject Jim Wallis’ [own words](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/sally_quinn/2010/04/interview_with_jim_wallis_about_glenn_beck_and_social_justice.html) about how the phrase “social justice” has been used? To my knowledge Wallis has not denied that the social justice has been used for ideological purposes. What he objected to is Becks intentional inflamitory and irresponsible language. He was right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/35 "2010-07-21T19:45:53Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > In his book Arguing With Idiots, Glenn describes helping those less fortunate as an “obligation.” He wrote that capitalism “will inevitably fail if individuals stop caring about the welfare of others.” He just believes the bulk of the help should come from people like you and me, not government bureaucracy. Come, now. I have nothing but admiration for people who willingly give of their own time and money to provide direct relief to the poor, but relying on **them** the deal with the problems of poverty in America is like relying on morphine to treat cancer. I know it, you know it, and Beck knows it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/36 "2010-07-21T19:49:18Z")
BTW, when I googled “Wallis criticizes Beck” this thread was the 2nd listing. Boy do I feel special. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/37 "2010-07-21T19:57:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Come, now. I have nothing but admiration for people who willingly give of their own time and money to provide direct relief to the poor, but relying on **them** the deal with the problems of poverty in America is like relying on morphine to treat cancer. I know it, you know it, and Beck knows it. There are no stats for this but I heard someone say once that if all the churches in America decided to help support two families, we could eliminate welfare. I prefer the personal touch and am not fond of the waste that goes along with government programs but the fact is voluntary giving hasn’t done it. For those who believe the goverment shouldn’t be involved , do you feel that way about civil rights? Should we have just waited for the public to decide in thier own good time to allow women and blacks to vote, and all the other issues. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/38 "2010-07-21T20:14:37Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > There are no stats for this but I heard someone say once that if all the churches in America decided to help support two families, we could eliminate welfare. Unfortunately a lot of churches can’t even support themselves. The averge congregation size in my denomination (Episcopal) is about 65 people so they’re lucky if they can afford a full-time minister and pay the utilities. And most people in this country do not regularly go to church, but they all pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/39 "2010-07-21T20:41:29Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Unfortunately a lot of churches can’t even support themselves. The average congregation size in my denomination (Episcopal) is about 65 people so they’re lucky if they can afford a full-time minister and pay the utilities. And most people in this country do not regularly go to church, but they all pay taxes. Thanks for the perspective. My sister and brother in law attend a small church in a very small rural town. My brother and sister in law attend a larger church in that same small town. Lots of small towns in that area have quite an assortment of congregations and denominations. My sisters little church has been really struggling financially as the congregation got older and not enough new members were joining. It seemed so easy to me. Join another Christian church. I know it’s not that easy but why not consolidate resources if it helps. Are the details of doctrine so severe and important that you can’t? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258/40 "2010-07-21T20:49:20Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > There are no stats for this but I heard someone say once that if all the churches in America decided to help support two families, we could eliminate welfare. That still would not eliminate **poverty.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-agasinst-beck-will-it-help/547258.md?page=3)