# Christians and D&D **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788 "2000-06-27T22:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/61 "2000-06-29T16:35:30Z")
red\_dragon60 wrote: > [@](#): > > from the above-linked mailbag answer: > > > [@](#): > > > > An ancient spell-using red dragon of huge size > > ::snip:: > > totalling 7758 h.p. > > Wow, I knew I was big, but _7758_ big, wow. I guess you never know your own strengths. Heh. But like I said, Cecil mis-quoted the passage slightly. He wrote “7758 h.p.” (meaning it takes 7758 hit points of damage to kill you), but the passage **actually** said “7758 x.p.” (meaning someone who killed you would earn 7758 experience points). Plus, how do we know you’re really a **huge ancient spell-using** red dragon, and not just some smaller, younger red dragon using his daddy’s computer? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/62 "2000-06-29T22:21:10Z")
tracer, I can assure you that I’m a large red dragon. I know Cecil’s folly, but hey, 7758 hit points is a lot better than xp. That means that knights reading Unca’s article will see that I am not worth killing. Hey, anyone want s’mores? I got a roaster built in. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/63 "2000-06-30T13:58:18Z")
Yeah, but you can only use that roaster 3 times a day. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/64 "2000-06-30T15:23:35Z")
> [@](#): > > we looked into what D&D actually was, and decided that the stories were probably urban legends that spread quickly among concerned parents. It might have had some factual grounding, such as a suicide of a kid who had been involved with D&D, and the story got embellished. There are actual incidents on which these stories are based. But as usual, such stories get embellished. Do a web search on “Pat Pulling” or “Bink Pulling.” You’ll get tons of good hits. As they say on the X Files, the truth is out there. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/65 "2000-06-30T15:43:16Z")
This is why I posted the Stackpole link on page 1. He discusses not only the Pulling story but I think four or five others, all from information Pat Pulling was disseminating (so sue me, my dictionary’s at home. :)) However, as Ms. Pulling has shuffled off this mortal coil, even I’m inclined to say, “let’s not drag her name through the muck anymore.” After all, she did a marvelous job on herself. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/66 "2000-06-30T17:09:33Z")
One thing I will always remember (played AD&D from 1980 - 1986) was a Christian Science Monitor article about D&D published in about 1982. This piece of trash was so full of mis-statements, inaccuracies, and what could only be outright lies, that it destroyed any notion of mine forever that it was the “Most Unbiased Newspaper on the Planet”. The article was accompanied by a staged picture of a young boy with an exaggerated drugged experession, surrounded by lead figures of demons and devils, a giant pentagram, etc. etc. I remember the final line of the article: “Who could possibly oppose such a game but a bunch of Christians?” “Most Unbiased Newspaper in the World” my ass. Here’s a CSM related hijack - I had an International Relations class in college where one of the requirements of the professor was to purchase a subscritption to the CSM for at least one year - it was worth 2% of your grade. And no one complained in the least to the administration (and I was too spineless too also, and didn’t care anyways since I already had about a 98% in the class). ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/67 "2000-06-30T17:19:37Z")
Tracer posted The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters link. Wow, that was funny. I hated playing in campaigns where they did all that crap. Anyway, I played most of the RPGs out there (not Harn because I couldn’t find a group so I never bought the rulebooks and a few others). Anwyay, Champions was too bogged down with math. GURPS was pretty fun eventhough the action moved slow. D&D (I liked the D$D that was posted earlier) was fun initially but seemed to much like a cartoon. It was good for cinematics until they stared doing all the updates when they tried to make it more a skill based system rather than experience based system. I miss playing Star Frontiers. I miss adaptin the various systems around to make it fit a different genre. Star Frontiers made a nice fantasy setting. Oh well. I wish I knew more people in the area that would be willing to put the time into roleplaying. Oh well… eventually. Anyway, I had a friend’s mother tape us while we were playing D&D to see what we were doing. She thought we were learning how to be satanists. We learned that long before she started taping us playing at 10. 😉 The Chick Tracts were wrong. We learned all about Satan from Church long before we ever heard about it from D&D. 🙂 (FTR, I am not a Satanist.) HUGS! Sqrl ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/68 "2000-06-30T18:04:44Z")
SqrlCub wrote: > [@](#): > > Tracer posted The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters link. Wow, that was funny. I hated playing in campaigns where they did all that crap. I’ve got links to that story, the SEQUEL to that story, and character sheets for some of the major characters in that story and its sequel, on my homepage at [http://www.netcom.com/~rogermw](http://www.netcom.com/~rogermw). (It’s about 2/3 of the way down the page, below my links for the Logan’s Run FAQ, Advanced Dark Sucker Theory, my anti-sovereign-citizen and anti-pure-trust-scam pieces, my fledgling anti-Wilhelm-Reich omnibus, and _Gaea’s Rising_.) ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/69 "2000-06-30T18:39:01Z")
Tracer, I am reading those now. heheeheh HUGS! Sqrl ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/70 "2000-06-30T18:47:17Z")
Sqrl said: > [@](#): > > We learned all about Satan from Church long before we ever heard about it from D&D. (FTR, I am not a Satanist.) He’ll be saddened to hear this. Attention fundamentalists: there is _photographic evidence_ that gay pagan squirrel-totemists are in league with Satan! Contact Aenea, Falcon, etc. for proof!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2000, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/71 "2000-07-01T08:37:32Z")
I’m a Christian, my dad is a Southern Baptist minister and I played from ages 11-17 or so (my brother too). This was about the era of the big scare and my folks were “curious” so my mom sat in one meeting for about 20 minutes, and decided nothing bad was going on and left. (we waited till she left and then told the DM that we wanted to start raping and pillaging). I might play now if I had the right group of people and a good DM. The only thing for me is that I can get too involved in stuff like that, and as a Christian I have to watch where I’m spending my time and energy. I’d imagine most people of whatever ethos feel the same responsiblity to spend their time wisely, and of course, that’s not D&D–ask me how much time I spent/wasted on SimCity last week. Still, if anybody needs an upper-level ranger specialized in unarmed combat, he’s sitting in my closet waiting to come out… \>sigh with fond memories\< ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2000, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/72 "2000-07-02T21:05:17Z")
furt wrote: > [@](#): > > I’m a Christian, my dad is a Southern Baptist minister and I played from ages 11-17 or so (my brother too). This was about the era of the big scare and my folks were “curious” so my mom sat in one meeting for about 20 minutes, and decided nothing bad was going on and left. And then you said, “Okay, she’s gone!” and started casting real-life spells and invoking the name of Satan, right? > [@](#): > > (we waited till she left and then told the DM that we wanted to start raping and pillaging). Oh. Darn. 😉 > [@](#): > > I might play now if I had the right group of people and a good DM. The only thing for me is that I can get too involved in stuff like that, and as a Christian I have to watch where I’m spending my time and energy. Well then, play a Cleric! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2000, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/73 "2000-07-03T06:02:00Z")
Hey, look at this ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2000, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/74 "2000-07-03T22:44:14Z")
evilbeth wrote: > [@](#): > > Hey, look at this **Not Found** The requested URL /sdmb/www.execpc.com/~dlbrown/logos/dnd-game.html was not found on this server. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/75 "2000-07-04T07:21:29Z")
Hey, wasn’t that great! {grumble, grumble…delete the SDMB info…grumble, grumble} OK! Well, try [THIS](http://www.execpc.com/~dlbrown/logos/dnd-game.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sylence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b19c9b/32.png) [@Sylence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylence)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/76 "2000-07-04T07:58:10Z")
Christian (well, now I’m agnostic) gamer here. No problems. Except a hard time finding the books and gaming groups down here. Anyone want a player? I’m a little rusty on the rules since I’ve been playing free-form online for the past few years . . . – Sylence ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/77 "2000-07-04T08:03:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sylence \* > \*\*Christian (well, now I’m agnostic) gamer here. > > No problems. Except a hard time finding the books and gaming groups down here. > > Anyone want a player? I’m a little rusty on the rules since I’ve been playing free-form online for the past few years . . . > – Sylence \*\* Well, I’d invite you to join us but I can’t remember where exactly you live and I’m afraid it would be one heck of a commute anyway! But if you’re ever in my neck of the woods… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/78 "2000-07-04T22:21:07Z")
evilbeth wrote: > [@](#): > > OK! Well, try [THIS](http://www.execpc.com/~dlbrown/logos/dnd-game.html) \*\* That’s more like it! I particularly enjoyed this paragraph: > [@](#): > > **Concerning Sexual Perversion** > > “… These evil creatures will certainly expect to loot, pillage, and rape freely at every chance, and kill (and probably eat) captives” (Players Handbood [sic], p. 31). The game may be just a game. However, it has become much more to many people. - In Seattle a father is under treatment because his son used his service revolver to kill himself after being involved in D & D for only 2 years. - In January a 17 year old walked onto a school stage, pointed a sawed off shotgun to his head and fired. Many - many cases are on public record of involvement in D & D leading to violence - murder - suicide. Heh. I’ve never heard of the “Player’s Handbood” before, but assuming the author meant “Player’s **Handbook** ”, the quote in the first sentence does not appear on page 31 of either the 1st edition AD&D or the 2nd edition AD&D Player’s Handbook. I doubt it appears on **any** page of either edition of the Player’s Handbook, although it **might** appear in the Monster Manual as a description of a certain kind of monster the players might have to fight **against**. I also like how, because two boys who committed suicide had previously played D&D, their suicides were automatically D&D’s fault. They were also breathing before they committed suicide. Maybe breathing drove them to kill themselves! Lock up your sons, parents of the world, and don’t let them have any air! ---
**Author:** ![Sylence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b19c9b/32.png) [@Sylence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylence)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/79 "2000-07-04T23:05:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I’d invite you to join us but I can’t remember where exactly you live and I’m afraid it would be one heck of a commute anyway! But if you’re ever in my neck of the woods… I live in southwestern Colorado, aka “The Boondocks.” 😉 – Sylence ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788/80 "2000-07-05T08:44:40Z")
Well, I consider myself a Christian (although some Fundies might diasagree), and I play and thoroughly enjoy D&D. On the other hand, my father, a peculiar brand of Fundamentalist, is adamantly dead-set against the game. I’d love to actually get him playing to see what it’s like… Zev, ( I believe it was Zev, anyway), I respect your views on playing clerics, but I don’t see that playing a cleric would necessarily have anything to do with idolatry. In every campaign I’ve ever played in, the deity which is worshipped by a particular priest is exactly as much of an issue as the player chooses to make it, except insofar as the deity is good or evil. You could perfectly well play a priest of Yahweh, without having any effect on the game mechanics. Finally, as to the presence of magic in the game: I think that [1 Corinthians, chapter 12](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1COR+12&language=english&version=NIV) is relevant here: > [@](#): > > 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the > same Spirit, > 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, > 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in > different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. Note that this passage does not refer to miracles, in the common sense of the word, in which a person requests something, and God decides whether to grant it. These are gifts; I can decide how to use my gift of intelligence without God’s specific approval, another might use his gift of physical strength the same way, and yet another might use his gift of prophecy or healing. How is “the gift of healing” so different from a Cure Light Wounds? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-and-d-d/23788.md?page=5)