I don’t know that it’s associated with all black churches. I wasn’t doing any sort of scientific survey when I noticed this, and all the pastors I had occasion to speak with for the piece were black. There could be dozens of white “apostles” in the Mid-South and I wouldn’t necessarily know about it.
Well, I didn’t mean to sound like I thought you’d taken a formal survey or anything. 
I’ve never heard of the term at all, and I’m in the South, but then I don’t go to a fundamentalist or evangelical church. Some of those types of churches could be doing lots of stuff I’m not familiar with and would have no affinity for. Handling snakes, even! I wouldn’t know. But I wouldn’t be offended by it, is all I’m saying.
I wasn’t clear. I should have gone on to say that I don’t think it’s necessarily a black thing; being black myself and having been raised in a black church (the odious Church of God in Christ, Inc.), that usage of apostle was a surprise to me too.
All the churches I know who use that title are black churches. It does not offend me, in this context I just assumed it was a denominational or cultural difference than how my church uses the term.
It’s in the vostle with the pellet with the poison. The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true.
As to the OP, I would kind of assume the person styling himself as Apostle (and the capital seems necessary) is taking on himself an authority that may or may not be justified.
We went thru something rather like this when the ELCA and the Anglicans entered into full communion with each other (I think is the correct term). The idea is that the Anglican bishops are in a direct line of succession from the original twelve apostles, hence the term “apostolic succession”. I never cared enough to find out if the claim was justifed or not.
Regards,
Shodan
Your quoting Danny Kaye movies pleases me and will be taken into account when I am deciding who is to be spared after the conquest.
How is the capital unnecessary? They’re using it as a title, a la Father Mulcahy, Captain Kirk, or Reverend Ike.
Offensive, yes… even if it’s considered theologically a near-hit for accurate word usage.
Self-aggrandizing, Hell Yes!
I’d be lying if I said it didn’t bug me: but it does. I think the capital A is important, because I see the Apostles as the original 12. It might not bug me so much if the modern-day apostles used the small a, because they’re not elevating themselves to the ranks of the original 12.
Raised Southern Baptist, once again Southern Baptist, after several detours along the way.
Does this mean I will be your Court Jester? I imagine the competition for this position is particularly fierce.
If I can’t be that, can I be a Flying Monkey?
I said
Regards,
Shodan
To be pendantic about it, he was not elected or voted upon; they cast lots.
Father, Captain, or Reverend are earned or academic titles. I would pre-emptively discredit a pastor who called himself an Apostle on the basis that he’s likely to be an uneducated lay-brother.
If “apostle” can be used appropriately at all in these days, it still should be a title reserved for missionaries, bishops, and church-planters, AND it should be a title bestowed by an authorizing body, not a self-appointment. However, it is such a loaded word, I think it should be avoided. It does have the connotation of someone specially endowed with Divine authority more than a mere “Pastor”.
I do believe that “apostolic” gifts of administration & “going forth” to evangelize & plant churches are still available to the Church. I also believe that “prophetic” gifts of Spirit-inspired preaching & personal counsel, and even, but rarely, of actual prediction of the future are also available to the Church. However, a chuch leader who calls him/herself “Prophet” or “Apostle” seems to be claiming an authority which I do not believe has existed in the present Church since John died.
Offend, no.
If he and his church are comfortable with it, um, good for them? It’s not blasphemous, it’s just a misuse of a term (I think I was taught that it was the 11 and Paul. No one else is an “Apostle.”). It’d be like him calling himself “Chancellor of the Exchequer” because he thinks it sounds cool. And misusing the term worries me, to the extent that many Pastors have teaching as part of their role.
Before becoming a regular attender of a church led by someone who titles himself “Apostle,” I would like an explanation of how he chose the title. And my suspicions are that (based on my beliefs and that I grew up in, have chosen to attend, and am more comfortable in West Coast churches with less rigid heirarchies) his explanation is not going to make me feel comfortable with his decisions.
I don’t like it all. I prefer, “Father,” “Pastor,” or “Reverend.” The pastor of my former church always used “Reverend Dr…” My current priest also has a doctorate, but it is in physics and not theology. He uses “Reverend” or “Dean” and omits the Dr.
Hardcore evangelical, pentecostal here.
I think that people who give that title to themselves are trying to trick people into believing that they have a special gift from the Lord, and are to be honored somehow, with money or service. Or, they have fooled themselves into same.
To get me into that church, there’d better be some serious resurrections from the dead, and mucho healings.
I would think that one of two things is going on:
- The person is hinky. (As the kids are saying nowadays.)
or - The person is so stupid to not know it’s hinky.
Neither is good.
As to apostolic succession: I don’t think the people in the chain consider themselves apostles, merely that it was started by an apostle.
To me Apostles are a handful of very specific people. To earn that title without having been one of the original 12-1+1 you need to be a giant along the lines of Paul or Xavier.
Thing is, since I already see “founding your own Church” as hubris (I’m a Catholic, if you don’t like what’s on the table you start another Order or another Movement, but not another Church), those pastors would just get one more inner rolleye from me than any other pastors who’ve founded their own little Kingdom of God. For comparison, claiming that your church is The Only One That Has The Keys To Heaven gets a whole extra can of rolleyes…
I see pastors self titling as “Bishops” more than Apostle, but I’ve seen it before. Heck, there’s a whole denomination called Apostolic. They are a subset of the “Holiness” doctrine. You know, the one where women have to wear dresses, keep their hair long, be totally subservient to men, etc.
So, I guess what I’m saying is, if I see someone with the title of “Apostle”, my first instinct is to check them for misogyny. If they aren’t, then I don’t care, as long at they don’t expect me to call them an Apostle.
I think it’s a dangerous title, anyways. There’s quite a lot of stuff about false apostles in scripture.
Like Ogre, I am also an atheist of Southern Baptist (Mississippi, even) background, and I had a trace of vestigal offense at the thought.
Jesus picked apostles, and they picked another one, and they all dead (cept, yanno, Jesus, who isn’t too talkative since he went up there to sit on the right and all.)
So as a knee jerk reaction, yeah.
Here’s a husband & wife team calling themselves Apostle.
I must admit, yes, that’s a bit presumptious.
I have heard the term here in MS. I assumed it’s a cultural thing, along with the term “Bishop” which is also used in many black churches here.
Wait - here’s a white dude who’s “an Apostle and Prophet”. There goes my theory!