# Christians, how do you justify that God is not a total prick? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976 "2011-03-25T15:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/21 "2011-03-26T14:16:52Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > This. > > Bottom line: even if He’s the biggest prick in the universe, He’s still the man. It doesn’t matter if it makes sense or not; it’s not for us to question or understand, our part is merely to obey (or not). Which is why I would cheerfully burn in hell for eternity rather than follow such an entity. But that’s just me. When I was a Baha’i, I was often told by Christians that I would go to hell for my beliefs. It never bothered me then. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/22 "2011-03-26T14:28:29Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > This. > > Bottom line: even if He’s the biggest prick in the universe, He’s still the man. It doesn’t matter if it makes sense or not; it’s not for us to question or understand, our part is merely to obey (or not). If we can’t understand, how can we know that we’re supposed to obey? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/23 "2011-03-26T14:32:05Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Bottom line: even if He’s the biggest prick in the universe, He’s still the man. It doesn’t matter if it makes sense or not; it’s not for us to question or understand, our part is merely to obey (or not). This argument seems to fail badly at the “justify” part of the OP’s question. It’s an argument that could just as easily be used to “justify” the behavior of Satan or Cthulhu. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/24 "2011-03-26T14:42:47Z")
The bible…do people still read that book? seriously Isn’t time to put that book aside an find something fresh. What a waste of time ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/25 "2011-03-26T14:43:18Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > If we can’t understand, how can we know that we’re supposed to obey? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This argument seems to fail badly at the “justify” part of the OP’s question. It’s an argument that could just as easily be used to “justify” the behavior of Satan or Cthulhu. I’m not a believer. My point is merely if one truly believes in an all-powerful omniscient God, then it’s not your place to question His commandments. You don’t have to “justify” anything; His word is all you need, whether it makes sense or not. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/26 "2011-03-26T14:48:56Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I’m not a believer. My point is merely if one truly believes in an all-powerful omniscient God, then it’s not your place to question His commandments. You don’t have to “justify” anything; His word is all you need, whether it makes sense or not. That doesn’t follow at all. Power and omniscience don’t mean that God is either trustworthy or moral, or even sane. How do you know that the reason his commands don’t make sense is that the commands are simply senseless? ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/27 "2011-03-26T14:51:43Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I’m not a believer. My point is merely if one truly believes in an all-powerful omniscient God, then it’s not your place to question His commandments. You don’t have to “justify” anything; His word is all you need, whether it makes sense or not. How does the one follow from the other? Perhaps the point of it all is for us to eventually usurp and kill God, granting Him the blessed release of Oblivion, and everything is just a lead-up to us being ready to do that, as a species. There is no reason to assume that God wants obedience; in fact, given that disobedience is possible, it’s necessarily true that God wants it. Once you push God off into the “not constrained by human logic or human understanding” category, how can you say anything definitive about Him at all? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/28 "2011-03-26T14:53:00Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > IYou work for God, God does not work for you. You follow God’s commandments to treat other people correctly. So we should stone adulterers and give our daughters to the mob to be raped? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/29 "2011-03-26T15:01:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That doesn’t follow at all. Power and omniscience don’t mean that God is either trustworthy or moral, or even sane. How do you know that the reason his commands don’t make sense is that the commands are simply senseless? I didn’t say anything about trust or morality. What difference would it make anyhow? If a being has the ability to send you to Hell for not following His commands, does his level of morality or sanity really make any difference to those who are subject to His judgment? > [@robertliguori](#): > > How does the one follow from the other? Perhaps the point of it all is for us to eventually usurp and kill God, granting Him the blessed release of Oblivion, and everything is just a lead-up to us being ready to do that, as a species. There is no reason to assume that God wants obedience; in fact, given that disobedience is possible, it’s necessarily true that God wants it. > > Once you push God off into the “not constrained by human logic or human understanding” category, how can you say anything definitive about Him at all? You are both attempting to apply logic and reason to something that is neither of those things. People who believe in it apply their own illogical, unreasonable standards. ---
**Author:** ![poet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@poet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poet)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/30 "2011-03-26T15:03:53Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Having a conversation with a friend last night. He was telling me about his daughter and how he had to explain to her the _he_ personally doesn’t believe in God; but if _she_ wants to believe in God like her mother; there’s nothing wrong with that. > > The daughter didn’t quite take this piece of advice as well as he thought. She started to get upset to the point of tears because she thought her dad was going to hell. He was able to console her by (his words) lying to her and telling here that “God gives a free pass to family members.” (Or something to that effect. I can’t remember verbatim.) > > But seriously, let’s just say for the moment that the Christian bible IS true. How do you get over the fact that God will make _[anybody_ burn in hell for enterinty who doesn’t belive in him or accept Jesus as their saviour? Even if said people have been good people their whole lives? > > Isn’t that a total prick move? > > Am I outdated? Do people still subscribe to the eternal damnation thing? It comes down to do you believe that there is a greater power or force than you, at work in the universe. I believe that there is. I believe that God sent his son, to redeem man…but then, I’m a Christian. Definitely more spiritual than religious. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/31 "2011-03-26T15:09:01Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I didn’t say anything about trust or morality. What difference would it make anyhow? If a being has the ability to send you to Hell for not following His commands, does his level of morality or sanity really make any difference to those who are subject to His judgment? Morality matters for its own sake. And if he’s evil or incomprehensible, what makes you think that obeying him will keep you out of Hell? And that argument basically boils down to the most moral thing you can do being the extermination of humanity, so God has no more new toys to torture. > [@DCnDC](#): > > You are both attempting to apply logic and reason to something that is neither of those things. So are you. If logic and reason don’t apply to something, then nothing meaningful can be said about it about it. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/32 "2011-03-26T15:14:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And if he’s evil or incomprehensible, what makes you think that obeying him will keep you out of Hell? You don’t know. That’s the big “fuck you” of it, isn’t it? Your only chance is to obey and hope. > [@](#): > > So are you. If logic and reason don’t apply to something, then nothing meaningful can be said about it about it. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/33 "2011-03-26T15:16:53Z")
> [@poet](#): > > It comes down to do you believe that there is a greater power or force than you, at work in the universe. I believe that there is. I believe that God sent his son, to redeem man…but then, I’m a Christian. Definitely more spiritual than religious. You are avoiding the OP. How do you reconcile what you believe with a God that punishes people for something Adam and Even did 6,000 years ago, and flooded the entire world killing everyone except a single boatful of people, and created leprosy, aids, and malaria, and let’s earthquakes happen, and killed the first born son of everyone in Egypt, and punished a family whose father did not let his daughters be raped? And why do you thing God needs to redeem man anyway? It seems like we should redeem God. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/34 "2011-03-26T15:20:02Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > You don’t know. That’s the big “fuck you” of it, isn’t it? Your only chance is to obey and hope. If God is so incomprehensible then you have no way of knowing what he can or will do or why, so you might as well do what you like. If God is incomprehensible, then that is the sum total of what can be said about it. All other discussion is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/35 "2011-03-26T15:21:22Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Having a conversation with a friend last night. He was telling me about his daughter and how he had to explain to her the _he_ personally doesn’t believe in God; but if _she_ wants to believe in God like her mother; there’s nothing wrong with that. > > The daughter didn’t quite take this piece of advice as well as he thought. She started to get upset to the point of tears because she thought her dad was going to hell. He was able to console her by (his words) lying to her and telling here that “God gives a free pass to family members.” (Or something to that effect. I can’t remember verbatim.)… This isn’t the question you are asking, but I had a thought about a better way to answer the daughter’s question. (Not that your friend is likely to tell her this.) Look, you believe that I’m going to be sentenced at Judgment Day for not being a true-believer. Then I’m going to combine with oxygen forever. But how do you know that the experience won’t be blissful? You heard me right. And, for that matter, how do you know that the people who get to the giant Retirement Home in the clouds won’t be envious of the ecstasy, if not actually in physical torment? Of course that doesn’t make any sense. Neither does combining with oxygen forever in the first place. Why be picky about absurdities? Why choose some of them and believe them, while rejecting others? Why not reject all of them? _ **- Jack** _ ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/36 "2011-03-26T15:27:49Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > Why be picky about absurdities? Why choose some of them and believe them, while rejecting others? Why not reject all of them? Then some fat shit in a polyester suit and his wife with makeup that would make a whore blush would need to get real jobs. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/37 "2011-03-26T17:46:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Here is what Jesus actually said: > So, four things to note. First, the sheperd in the parable does not turn any sheep into a goat or vice versa, nor has the ability to do so. The sheperd only looks at each animal and determines whether it is a sheep or a goat. So the parable does not imply that Jesus will choose who is going to go into each group, but only that he will label members of each group correctly. > > Second, the criteria which distinguishes the two groups is not having faith in Jesus Christ, but rather providing for the specific physical and other needs of those who were needy. > > Third, members of both groups (or presumably some of the members of both groups) will be surprised by the fact that they ended up in that group. > > Fourth, the nature of the punishment is not told. We are only told that it is eternal, so in other words God has provided separate places where those who choose to spend eternity with God will be able to do so, and those who choose to spend eternity apart from God will be able to do so. I believe that these are _not_ the most pertinent texts to answer the OP, and to the extent they are they are too limited to give an accurate context in answering the [juvenile] question posed in the OP. At any rate, the texts do indicate the “nature of the punishment” and I can see why so many atheists find the “it’s a mystery” answer so suspect. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/38 "2011-03-26T17:53:45Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Having a conversation with a friend last night. He was telling me about his daughter and how he had to explain to her the _he_ personally doesn’t believe in God; but if _she_ wants to believe in God like her mother; there’s nothing wrong with that. > > The daughter didn’t quite take this piece of advice as well as he thought. She started to get upset to the point of tears because she thought her dad was going to hell. He was able to console her by (his words) lying to her and telling here that “God gives a free pass to family members.” (Or something to that effect. I can’t remember verbatim.) > > But seriously, let’s just say for the moment that the Christian bible IS true. How do you get over the fact that God will make _[anybody_ burn in hell for enterinty who doesn’t belive in him or accept Jesus as their saviour? Even if said people have been good people their whole lives? > > Isn’t that a total prick move? > > Am I outdated? Do people still subscribe to the eternal damnation thing? The bible does _not_ indicate _anywhere_ that people will burn in hell for eternity. And so the premise of the OP is invalid. IOW, the Bible is true, your interpretation is not. That statement will likely cause some to Google up “Lazarus” and quickly misapply it. (and this may include atheists and Christians alike unfortunately) Some may give the “it’s a mystery” answer----the same answer given when pointing out the dichotomies in the Trinity doctrine. At any rate, there is no biblical basis for a burning hell. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/39 "2011-03-26T18:22:21Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > The bible does _not_ indicate _anywhere_ that people will burn in hell for eternity. > > And so the premise of the OP is invalid. IOW, the Bible is true, your interpretation is not. > > That statement will likely cause some to Google up “Lazarus” and quickly misapply it. (and this may include atheists and Christians alike unfortunately) Some may give the “it’s a mystery” answer----the same answer given when pointing out the dichotomies in the Trinity doctrine. > > At any rate, there is no biblical basis for a burning hell. > [@](#): > > In a story Jesus tells, the man who is carried away into hell cries: “. . .I am tormented in this FLAME.” Luke 16:24 > > Jesus says: “And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:42 > > Jesus says: “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels: . . .” [Note: hell was never originally prepared for people. However, because we have broken God’s laws, God’s justice now demands it.] Matthew 25:41 > > Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. > > Jesus says in Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of HELL FIRE. > > Jesus says in Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE. > > Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE. > > Revelation 14:10 says: “and he shall be tormented with FIRE and BRIMSTONE in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:” > > Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE which burneth with FIRE and BRMISTONE: which is the second death. From [here](http://www.eternalhell.net/hellfire.htm#111448080). ---
**Author:** ![trabajabamos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@trabajabamos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trabajabamos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976/40 "2011-03-26T20:20:29Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > But seriously, let’s just say for the moment that the Christian bible IS true. How do you get over the fact that God will make _[anybody_ burn in hell for enterinty who doesn’t belive in him or accept Jesus as their saviour? Basically you get over it by making a lot of the arguments you’ve undoubtedly already heard. In a nutshell, you can argue that God’s actions are justified:[ul] [li]by definition[_] for reasons beyond our comprehension[_]via some amalgam of the first two arguments[/ul][/li]If you, like me, don’t find those arguments particularly compelling, you may have a hard time squaring Christian salvation theology with the contemporary loving God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-how-do-you-justify-that-god-is-not-a-total-prick/575976.md?page=3)