# Christians is it wrong to own two coats? How about luxuries? And so on... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249 "2008-02-12T04:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/41 "2008-02-12T20:22:45Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Might I enquire as to how you are able to dismiss the Bible on one hand, and then put forth what Jesus actually meant with such certainty on the other? Do you have an alternative source for what Jesus meant? [/QUOTE] Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/42 "2008-02-12T20:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Unfortunately not much as many false apostles and fake christs have gone out into the world, we are instructed to look for the Fruit of the Spirit: > **[Fruit of the Holy Spirit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_spirit)** > > The Fruit of the Holy Spirit (sometimes referred to as the Fruits of the Holy Spirit) is a biblical term that sums up nine attributes of a person or community living in accord with the Holy Spirit, according to chapter 5 of the Epistle to the Galatians: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." The fruit is contrasted with the works of the flesh discussed in the previous verses. "These qualities are the resul The C... and to test the spirits [/QUOTE] [Jesus spoke to this as well](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:15-23;&version=31;): > [@](#): > > 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. " But how to tell good fruit from bad? If only Jesus had given us some guidleines to tell the difference… Oh wait. He did. He told us many examples of virtuous behavior. And we are back to where we started; can we evaluate others based on the examples taught by Jesus? Or do we risk letting the false prophets off the hook by not recognizing bad fruit, because they also say they are not accountable to anyone but god? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/43 "2008-02-12T22:38:32Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I was reading Luke and in it there is a quote that if a man has two coats he should give one to the poor that have none. If you are a Christian, do you own two coats? How do you reconcile this with Luke? I think we can also say this teaching should not just apply to coats, so how do you reconcile owning any luxuries? [/quote] To answer the questions in the order in which they were asked, I own exactly one coat, I have no trouble reconciling my ownership of one coat with the teachings of Luke, and I own no luxuries, so I have nothing to reconcile in that department either. > [@](#): > > Also in Luke, it says that you should give to any man that asks and if some steals from you should not ask for the stuff back. Do you follow this teaching? Why or why not? If you do not, how do you reconcile this with Luke? I do follow this teaching. For instance, when I was issued a bogus speeding ticket, I sent the state of Maryland a check for double the amount that they fined me. I foundd this a very sound and intelligent teaching. Basically the other alternatives were to fight the speeding ticket (a fight which I would probably lose) or to pay it and be resentful (which accomplishes nothing). The ‘pay double’ method was emotionally and spiritual satisfying and did not lead to lasting fights or anger. (Also it’s amusing to watch the state of Maryland trying to return my money.) ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/44 "2008-02-12T22:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] I do follow this teaching. For instance, when I was issued a bogus speeding ticket, I sent the state of Maryland a check for double the amount that they fined me. I foundd this a very sound and intelligent teaching. Basically the other alternatives were to fight the speeding ticket (a fight which I would probably lose) or to pay it and be resentful (which accomplishes nothing). The ‘pay double’ method was emotionally and spiritual satisfying and did not lead to lasting fights or anger. (Also it’s amusing to watch the state of Maryland trying to return my money.) [/QUOTE] Do you not worry that by paying more you might just be motivating them to continue stealing in that way (i’m not sure i’d say “stealing” unless it was deliberate)? ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/45 "2008-02-12T23:43:24Z")
[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew] Jesus himself was confronted with a similar question to the OP in John 12 when he got a hot-oil foot massage from Mary Magdalene and Judas piped up with “Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?” to which Jesus replied “Shut up.” [/QUOTE] 🙂 I always wonder what people who wear WWJD bracelets tell themselves. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/46 "2008-02-12T23:53:44Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] yet completely ignore the quote about a camel being more likely to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man entering heaven. [/QUOTE] If you’re rich, you can buy a big ass needle and a midget camel. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/47 "2008-02-13T00:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] I always use two coats. First, the primer, then the topcoat. It looks much better that way. Screw the Bible. [/QUOTE] I have no answer to the OP. I just came in to comment on your rockingness. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/48 "2008-02-13T00:55:45Z")
This is one of those areas that Islam seems a bit more practical than Christianity. It’s not a sin in the Muslim world to be wealthy and early on in their religion they were a bit more concerned about worldly matters than Christians. Perhaps it has something to do with Muhammad being a well off merchant? Early Christian’s believed that the coming of Christ wouldn’t be too far in the future. Why focus on the material if Jesus was coming back within a few generations? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/49 "2008-02-13T13:10:45Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] This is a lie from the pit of Hell . . . [/QUOTE] That’s \*one \* way of looking at it, I suppose. Another way of approaching it is that different people apply different interpretations to particular bits of scripture, \*and \* to the entirey of scripture. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/50 "2008-02-13T13:11:54Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] What I said before, Matthew 22:39 . Love thy neighbor. Pretty straightforward. Anyone who claims to be a Christian but doesn’t follow that rule is not doing what Christ asks. Actually, anyone, no matter whether they believe in God or not, who doesn’t follow that rule is pretty much an asshole. [/QUOTE] Well the greatest commandment is love thy God with all your heart/soul/mind. That allows you to love your neighbor, using the power of God. We are not equipped to do it on our own and God know that. We must abide in the vine (Jesus), the sap that runs in the vine runs in the branches (us - His church) in order to produce fruit. We simply can’t love our neighbor in a Godly way on our own, so using your own paraphrase we are all assholes. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/51 "2008-02-13T13:46:19Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] It is true that Jesus did not establish, build, preach in, or otherwise conduct church services. [/QUOTE] lekatt, Jesus did establish a church you are picking and choosing scriptures and taking things badly out of context. You see church as a physical structure filled of man made rules, and in that sense you are correct - this is not what Jesus established, but you leave out Jesus (as you so often do), He established His church which is a spiritual family with Him, and is part of Him. When 2 or more believers are gathered in His name He is there with us. > [@](#): > > I know what it says in the Bible, You haven’t proved that to any extent, you have IMHO no idea of what it says, you mentioned concepts that is more at home in the occult then the Word of God, remember Satan used the Word of God for his own purpose and masquerades as an angel of light (1 Cor 11:14). Which pretty much describes your NDE encounter. You deny hell, Satan and demons, yet say that Jesus meant what He said, and he spoke of all 3 often, much more often then Paul ever did. > [@](#): > > Jesus’ words come to us through the pens of others from their memories, and I doubt we have the whole of what he said. Jesus’ words came straight from the Father via the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that lives inside the Believers. Thinking God can’t get His word to us exactly how He wants means you have very little regard for God’s power. > [@](#): > > Remember Peter had denied he even knew Jesus, doubtful Jesus would have Peter establish a church in His name Again you show the deception you are under, Peter is exactly the person that God would use. Look at Moses, some who stuttered is goign to lead God’s people out of Egypt? Isreal was the ‘least among nations’, David slew Goliath and became King - the last born son in the family a shepherd, Odisimus \, a run away slave returned to be a important figure in the church, perhaps establishing one for Christ. > [@](#): > > that would have been out-of-character because Jesus was not a friend of the established churches. Again distortion of the enemy comes through you. Yes Jesus didn’t like the established temple, that is why He gave his body for us and tore the temple curtain. The church is no longer a structure that God’s Name will be in, but God is now in us, we are His church. > [@](#): > > The main teachings of Jesus are to love one another, give to those in need, heal the sick, resist not evil, and don’t judge others. You left out cast out demons - which is more of a teaching of His then don’t judge others, He actually instructed people to go out and cast out demons. > [@](#): > > You can learn this in a church, but you don’t need a church to follow the teachings. The church will not bring you abundant life, however, the teachings will. No one is special for going to church, all are equal in the sight and love of God. Again you have no idea what the church really is, it is spiritual. > [@](#): > > But it is not the church that changes lives, it is the teachings. No is it the acceptance of Jesus as Lord that changes lives, at which time you are born into His church. The teachings at first let you get to know Jesus, but the turning point is accepting Jesus into your heart. After which the teachings are used to test the spirits. > [@](#): > > Jesus gave Peter a pass? OK, I can accept that because Jesus also gave the prostitute a pass, Jesus also gave all His killers a pass saying: Forgive them, for they know not what they do Jesus didn’t give any of these people a pass, He payed the price for them in full. > [@](#): > > We all have a pass for our mistakes and shortcomings, For those who believe, who put Jesus in the proper place in their hearts, Lord over their life. We have to decide that we don’t want to run our own life and want to have a God over us. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/52 "2008-02-13T13:58:08Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] And we are back to where we started; can we evaluate others based on the examples taught by Jesus? Or do we risk letting the false prophets off the hook by not recognizing bad fruit, because they also say they are not accountable to anyone but god? [/QUOTE] For the unbeliever you would need to be called by God to notice certain things, those things are the fruit of the spirit, but you would really notice them by God’s power, and they would guide you in. If no calling you won’t be able to notice them. For the believer, the Holy Spirit will alert you, sometimes it will take some time, but staying faithful to God and God will get you through and expose the false prophets for what they are. [QUOTE=Genghis Bob] That’s one way of looking at it, I suppose. Another way of approaching it is that different people apply different interpretations to particular bits of scripture, and to the entirey of scripture. [/QUOTE] No Genghis Bob, I’ve seen enough of lekatts posts to know that lekatt is under deception and leading others to destruction as well. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/53 "2008-02-13T14:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] . . . No Genghis Bob, I’ve seen enough of lekatts posts to know that lekatt is under deception and leading others to destruction as well. [/QUOTE] Okay. I haven’t looked at \*\*Lekatt’s \*\* posting history, so I’m just going by what he says in this thread. Based on what I see here, if I were forced to choose between “\*\*Lekatt \*\* is spewing lies from hell” and “Lekatt’s interpretation of scripture is different than **Kanicbird’s** ”, then I’ll go with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/54 "2008-02-13T14:30:23Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Well the greatest commandment is love thy God with all your heart/soul/mind. That allows you to love your neighbor, using the power of God. We are not equipped to do it on our own and God know that. We must abide in the vine (Jesus), the sap that runs in the vine runs in the branches (us - His church) in order to produce fruit. We simply can’t love our neighbor in a Godly way on our own, so using your own paraphrase we are all assholes. [/QUOTE] Yup, we are all assholes. [“No one is good—except God alone.”](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18:18-19;&version=31;) You are right about what Jesus calls the greatest commandment but not everyone believes in God. However I think everyone (except for sociopaths) can agree with Jesus’ second commandment. We might try and struggle but none of us is perfect and we can never achieve perfection. That is our nature. But we strive to overcome our nature by working to be more Christ-like and loving even with those who persecute us. Jesus taught us to pray in just that manner in [Luke 11:2-4](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2011:1-13&version=31;). It is what we all wish to achieve and what would make the world a better place. Ignore everything else that is taught in the Torah, the New Testament, the Koran, the Vedas or what have you. That line is what will change the world. Or you can modernize the message and use the words of Lennon and McCartney: “All You Need is Love.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/55 "2008-02-13T16:54:27Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] Or you can modernize the message and use the words of Lennon and McCartney: “All You Need is Love.” [/QUOTE] Yes, they knew what they were talking about. Here is a link to religious tolerance that I think is very good. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm) We all were raised with different ideas of the world, then we look for more information the rest of our lives. It is impossible that we think alike, but we can use God’s love to show compassion and tolerance for others, whether they think like us or not. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/56 "2008-02-13T21:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Do you not worry that by paying more you might just be motivating them to continue stealing in that way (i’m not sure i’d say “stealing” unless it was deliberate)? [/QUOTE] Since there aren’t many people who react that way in that situation, I don’t worry about it. But let me address the practical aspects of not fighting back against thieves. Jesus never commanded his followers to go out of their way to get robbed. Nor did he command us to give up stuff to thieves on a large scale. Obviously once a theft is so large that it’s ruining people’s lives, then it’s time to resist. The “give him also your coat” line refers to small-scale cases involving minor material things. Jesus is saying that in those cases, you should maintain proper priorities and thus not expend great energy to retrieve something that’s almost worthless in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/57 "2008-02-13T21:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] I do follow this teaching. For instance, when I was issued a bogus speeding ticket, I sent the state of Maryland a check for double the amount that they fined me. I foundd this a very sound and intelligent teaching. Basically the other alternatives were to fight the speeding ticket (a fight which I would probably lose) or to pay it and be resentful (which accomplishes nothing). The ‘pay double’ method was emotionally and spiritual satisfying and did not lead to lasting fights or anger. (Also it’s amusing to watch the state of Maryland trying to return my money.) [/QUOTE] I understand the futility and frustration in fighting a bogus ticket and sometimes it is just easier to pay it and move on. However, I would never give extra to them. You are being robbed, why reward the robber? [“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2022:21;&version=31;68;) If Caesar wants extra from me then he bloody well better earn it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/58 "2008-02-13T21:37:43Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] No Genghis Bob, I’ve seen enough of lekatts posts to know that lekatt is under deception and leading others to destruction as well. [/QUOTE] So much for judge not ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/59 "2008-02-13T21:46:23Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] So much for judge not [/QUOTE] Yep, that whole “judge not” thing seems not so much in vogue with a big branch of the Christian family these days . . . which is one reason why I avoid the reunions. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249/60 "2008-02-13T21:52:27Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Since there aren’t many people who react that way in that situation, I don’t worry about it. [/quote] Eh, you never know. Besides, even just one person can make a difference. That does rather seem a theme in Christianity. 😉 > [@](#): > > But let me address the practical aspects of not fighting back against thieves. Jesus never commanded his followers to go out of their way to get robbed. Nor did he command us to give up stuff to thieves on a large scale. Obviously once a theft is so large that it’s ruining people’s lives, then it’s time to resist. The “give him also your coat” line refers to small-scale cases involving minor material things. Jesus is saying that in those cases, you should maintain proper priorities and thus not expend great energy to retrieve something that’s almost worthless in the grand scheme of things. The problem I see with this is that by encouraging the small we steer into the bad. A person who gets away with a small crime will risk getting away with a larger one. And not all people are able to resist. Enabling theft means the thief is motivated to continue doing what he does. And it increases the amount of chances that those thefts so large they ruin people’s lives happen, and to someone who might not be able to do anything about it. Besides, pretty much nothing is uniformly worthless, even in spiritual terms. A sense of loss, even material loss, may affect someone spiritually, whether that’s because of the item lost or the actual being robbed from itself. How many people do you reckon have been turned onto the “why do bad things happen to good people?” problem through theft? I’d wager a good few. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-is-it-wrong-to-own-two-coats-how-about-luxuries-and-so-on/437249.md?page=4)