# Christians/Jews: Will everybody recognize Christ/The Messiah when He returns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042 "2005-12-04T16:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/1 "2005-12-04T16:52:55Z")
A question for Christians: do you believe that when Christ returns, all people will recognize Him for who He is? Or will there be controversy as to whether or not it’s really Him? Will the presence of doubters be proof that the person claiming to be Christ is an imposter, because the real Christ will be known by all to truly be Him, by supernatural means? And basically the same question to Jews regarding the Messiah, and is the fact that everybody did not accept Christ as the Messiah considered proof or evidence toward Christ not being the Messiah? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/2 "2005-12-04T17:08:12Z")
My Christain view is yes there will be no question but some/many may choose to oppose Him. Also the 1st coming, according to the Old Testiment basically stated some of the aspects of Jesus’s life (gambeling for his robes for one, but there were many more that fit His live perfectly) as a sign of the Messiah, and what was written then does not make it sound that everyone would accept Him. ---
**Author:** ![qsrkc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/73ab20/32.png) [@qsrkc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qsrkc)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/3 "2005-12-04T17:13:13Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > A question for Christians: do you believe that when Christ returns, all people will recognize Him for who He is? Or will there be controversy as to whether or not it’s really Him? Will the presence of doubters be proof that the person claiming to be Christ is an imposter, because the real Christ will be known by all to truly be Him, by supernatural means? > > And basically the same question to Jews regarding the Messiah, and is the fact that everybody did not accept Christ as the Messiah considered proof or evidence toward Christ not being the Messiah? As Christians we base our knowledge of Christ the Messiah on what we accept as the inspired word of God. According to those writings, “every eye will see Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn at the because of Him.” rev1:7 We also learn from those writings that He returns with the armies of heaven and a swordin his mouth with which the enemies of God a slain. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/4 "2005-12-04T17:25:16Z")
For Jews, the messiah is the messiah because he does certain things. A little background. “Moshiach” means somebody who’s annointed with oil. In the old days, a king of Israel was crowned, part of the coronation ceremony involved putting oil on his head. After the Babylonians sacked the kingdom of Judah, people had this idea that the destruction of the Jewish kingdom wouldn’t be permanent…that Jews would have their own kingdom again. So these are the requirements for a person to be the messiah. He has to be Jewish, a man, and descended in the male line from King David (because those are requirements to take the throne of Israel). He has to rule as king of Israel over its boundries in the days of David and Solomon, and cause Jews living elsewhere to return to Israel. He has to rebuild the temple and have people start worshiping in it. He has to encourage Jews to be devout and keep the commandments, make Jewish law the law of Israel, and establish religious courts to enforce it. He has to lead armies against the enemies of Israel and the enemies of God. If he does that, he’s the messiah, and God will bless the world and we’ll enter into a messianistic age, where people will stop worshiping false idols and worship God. Nations will stop waging war, and people will no longer want to do evil things. The evidence that Jesus wasn’t the messiah is that he didn’t do any of the things in the first paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/5 "2005-12-04T17:47:19Z")
Nitpick: Yes, he will be qualified by doing all those things, but according to the teachers of my youh, the messianic age will be indistinguishable from a non-messianic age, until long into the process. Thus, no, you will not recognize the messiah when you see him. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/6 "2005-12-04T18:20:54Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > A question for Christians: do you believe that when Christ returns, all people will recognize Him for who He is? Or will there be controversy as to whether or not it’s really Him? Will the presence of doubters be proof that the person claiming to be Christ is an imposter, because the real Christ will be known by all to truly be Him, by supernatural means? > > And basically the same question to Jews regarding the Messiah, and is the fact that everybody did not accept Christ as the Messiah considered proof or evidence toward Christ not being the Messiah? No I do not think everyone, will recognize Christ when he returns. People will have a perception of what and who Christ is that will affect whether or not they believe. If the Messiah does not fit one’s preconceptions as to what the Messiah would look or act like, then people will have trouble believing. This is why Christ will come as a thief in the night, in secret at first, revealing himself only here and there in little pockets as the world becomes more ready to accept his return. The mere concept of one absolute monarch of the entire Earth who is physically immortal has to get through many layers of bias before people will be willing to accept it as a reality. There will be many people who will fear Christ as they have come to fear world leaders ever since Julius Caesar changed the Roman Empire to the Roman Republic. The biggest mistake that people will make is they will expect someone named Jesus to return. The might have trouble expecting that Christ was born into a human form, and wasn’t instantly the fully formed adult messiah that they fantasized about. Certain mundanities will preclude people from understanding. Those who have built churches as great profit centers for themselves will resist Christ and his teachings, as Pharisees will require dragging from the temple once again. Certain people will be angry at Christ’s methods, such as putting his fool in the Presidency of the pre-eminent empire to expose the hypocrisy and corruption of that empire so that it may fall, so that the New World Order may arise. Then there is the sticky little issue of the Book of Revelations, a nightmarish vision of the future that somehow made it’s way into a book where the gospel of Mary Magdalene was left absent. The Book of Revelations will call into question a world empire, playing on millenia of fear of secret police and pogroms. Christ will not be a totalitarian tyrant executing anyone who oppose him. Atheists and non-Christians have nothing to fear from retribution, and Christians as a whole are not closer to the ultimate truth than anyone else, simply because they maintained and spread the knowledge of the return. The American Republic will have to fall so that a fully democratic empire may arise. The American Republic was the Chrysalis out of which the New World Order will arise, a World Order where there is more equal representation of every man woman and child on the planet. None of this will of course happen overnight, but it will happen quickly, it has already begun. The rise of Iran is one of the last necessary pieces of the puzzle, as it is one of the keys to a more peaceful middle east. The return of many of the past’s ascended masters will make the transition easier as they will transmit the change to their respective cultures in a form that is easier for them to understand. They are already here, and are preparing for the transition that will go into effect in 2012. What will make the transition smoother is that there is a universal thread that moves across many cultures that feels the transition coming, and are awaiting such a blossoming. As anyone who truly understands the internet already knows the economy will resemble the Catholic idea of “[Distributism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism)”. The hierarchy will be revealed and the structure will be pyramidal. Major corporations will end up forming industry monopolies, such as Google and Intel, who already maintain near monopolies. Intel will be the Microprocessor Guild, and Google will be the Operating System guild. Access to information will be unprecedented. However, back to the original point, people will have trouble recognizing the return of the messiah, though the collective will has made the decision, it was democratic after a fashion, and the world is ready for the return. By the end, everyone will recognize it as a fact, and the transition will be complete. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/7 "2005-12-04T18:36:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > The return of many of the past’s ascended masters will make the transition easier as they will transmit the change to their respective cultures in a form that is easier for them to understand. They are already here, and are preparing for the transition that will go into effect in 2012. > > What will make the transition smoother is that there is a universal thread that moves across many cultures that feels the transition coming, and are awaiting such a blossoming. Over the centuries, many such dates have been proposed, and come, and gone, and the world hasn’t ended. Many cultures have “felt” the end of the world approaching; but we’re still here. I would not advise anyone to make plans based on the world ending seven years from now, at least. 🙂 On the original question. As a Christian, I’d say that I _have_ recognized the Risen Christ; and, if the parousia does come in my lifetime, I’m sure that everyone will accept that it’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/8 "2005-12-04T18:59:06Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > Over the centuries, many such dates have been proposed, and come, and gone, and the world hasn’t ended. Many cultures have “felt” the end of the world approaching; but we’re still here. I would not advise anyone to make plans based on the world ending seven years from now, at least. 🙂 > > On the original question. As a Christian, I’d say that I _have_ recognized the Risen Christ; and, if the parousia does come in my lifetime, I’m sure that everyone will accept that it’s happening. Well the thing about now is that it’s not just one culture that is proposing it, there are a lot of different end-times movements. Hell MSNBC has an End Times correspondent. It’s not just a Christian thing. If everyone recognizes it, I suppose that would be nice. We’ll see. I believe that on December 21, 2012 something major will happen because the will of the people on Earth to have something happen is there, as I believe of course that the will determines the course of events, I think the date will be significant, simply because we have imbued it with significance already. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/9 "2005-12-04T19:33:35Z")
IIRC correctly, isn’t 2012 the Mayan end times calculation? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/10 "2005-12-04T19:54:17Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > IIRC correctly, isn’t 2012 the Mayan end times calculation? Correct. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/11 "2005-12-04T20:22:21Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well the thing about now is that it’s not just one culture that is proposing it, there are a lot of different end-times movements. Hell MSNBC has an End Times correspondent. It’s not just a Christian thing. > > If everyone recognizes it, I suppose that would be nice. We’ll see. I believe that on December 21, 2012 something major will happen because the will of the people on Earth to have something happen is there, as I believe of course that the will determines the course of events, I think the date will be significant, simply because we have imbued it with significance already. > > Erek My 10 year wedding anniversary? 12/21/2012 🙂 I wouldn’t consider a news agency (or in my opinion a business) a good example of your theory. They’re in the business of providing people with what they want to hear, what’s dramatic and frightening. If you’re interested in pointing out a link between a culture other than Christianity and this “End Times” hysteria, I would recommend choosing an organization that is not based in the US. I’m not saying that other cultures don’t have similar stories, just that you have chosen a poor example to validate your claims. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/12 "2005-12-04T20:32:09Z")
Of course! Or, at least I will. (Among other things, he owes me $10.) 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/13 "2005-12-04T21:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > . This is why Christ will come as a thief in the night, in secret at first, revealing himself only here and there in little pockets as the world becomes more ready to accept his return. I have take the thief in the night to mean that there will be no warning ahead of time, but once the theif comes you know it, but OK a bit after unless you catch him in the act. > [@](#): > > The American Republic was the Chrysalis out of which the New World Order will arise, a World Order where there is more equal representation of every man woman and child on the planet The fall of the American Republic and the rise of the ‘NWO’ is more of a sign of the Anti-Christ, as well as ‘more equal representation’ of every man woman and child. ‘More equal by lessesing’ the representation of each person to about equally low levels. I see it very clear that God (both Father and Son) has made men and women different, and has different roles for them. These different things can not be equated, but I strongly suspect they will be equally valued, and the synergy of the union of a couple will be valued more then 2x. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/14 "2005-12-04T21:39:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The fall of the American Republic and the rise of the ‘NWO’ is more of a sign of the Anti-Christ, as well as ‘more equal representation’ of every man woman and child. 😕 Egalitarianism is anti-Christ? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/15 "2005-12-04T22:29:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Egalitarianism is anti-Christ? It appears so, Jesus appeared to discriminate against a gender in picking apostles. God does define different roles of the genders. God does speak of higher places of honor (and places in heaven) And Christ is The King, not the Christ the President, Not the Christ the Potentate, the King, which does speak to a non-egalitarianism form of gov’t. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/16 "2005-12-04T22:32:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It appears so, Jesus appeared to discriminate against a gender in picking apostles. Cite? Last time I looked, he had hundreds of Apostles, some of which were female. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/17 "2005-12-04T22:49:51Z")
> [@](#): > > It appears so, Jesus appeared to discriminate against a gender in picking apostles. Just to clarify, I use the word discrimination in a neutral sense, not the negative PC way. Example, I like silk shirts, so I discriminate against cotton shirt manufacturers. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/18 "2005-12-04T22:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Cite? Last time I looked, he had hundreds of Apostles, some of which were female. [http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/apostles.htm](http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/apostles.htm) [www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/apostles.htm](http://www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/apostles.htm) [www.jesus8880.com/chapters/gematria/twelve-disciples-12317.htm](http://www.jesus8880.com/chapters/gematria/twelve-disciples-12317.htm) [www.12apostlesofthecatholicchurch.com/](http://www.12apostlesofthecatholicchurch.com/) [www.ainglkiss.com/apo/](http://www.ainglkiss.com/apo/) [chi.gospelcom.net/between/subindexes/apostles.shtml](http://chi.gospelcom.net/between/subindexes/apostles.shtml) > **[Who were the twelve (12) disciples / apostles of Jesus Christ? |...](http://www.gotquestions.org/twelve-apostles-disciples-12.html)** > > Who were the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ? How many apostles were there? How many disciples did Jesus have? > **[What Happened to the Early Disciples of Jesus?](https://www.everystudent.com/wires/apostles.html)** > > Why the 12 apostles, Jesus' disciples, became the first Christian martyrs. Why they were willing to die for His message... > **[Apostle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle)** > > An apostle (/əˈpɒsəl/), in its most literal sense, is an emissary, from Greek ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), literally "one who is sent off", from the verb ἀποστέλλειν (apostéllein), "to send off". The purpose of such sending off is usually to convey a message, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation; other common translations include "ambassador" and "envoy". > The term derives from the Greek of the New Testament and was used for Jesus's original Twelve Apostles (including Peter, James, ... [www.stmarycoptorthodox.org/12-apostles.htm](http://www.stmarycoptorthodox.org/12-apostles.htm) > **[Jesus Calls the Twelve Apostles Analysis and Commentary](https://www.learnreligions.com/jesus-calls-the-twelve-apostles-248679)** > > In Mark 3:13-19, Jesus calls the 12 apostles. Find out why he calls 12 as opposed to 10 or 15, as well as further analysis of this bible passage. I think you mean disciples ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/19 "2005-12-04T23:05:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I think you mean disciples :smack: I am a real :wally . Though come to think of it, > [@Paul](#): > > Chater 16, verse 7 in the book of Romans: Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. Sure sounds like a female apostle to me. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042/20 "2005-12-05T02:47:55Z")
Yes, the ultimate return of Jesus will be a visible global cataclysmic event, and will expose the pretence of the false messiah whom Paul calls “the Man of Sin” (II Thess 2) and John calls “the Beast” (either the imperial Sea-Beast or the religious Land-Beast aka “the False Prophet”). Mswas said "This is why Christ will come as a thief in the night, in secret at first, revealing himself only here and there in little pockets as the world becomes more ready to accept his return. " But Jesus said in Matthew 24 23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25. Behold, I have told you before. 26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-jews-will-everybody-recognize-christ-the-messiah-when-he-returns/334042.md?page=2)