# Christians Vs. Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2000, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981 "2000-07-08T23:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2000, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/21 "2000-07-09T14:59:44Z")
> [@](#): > > That quote is so true. I truly believe with all my heart that if every Christian on earth acted just like Jesus, then the entire world would be saved I agree, Adam. If every Christian would get executed and then disappear, things would improve immensely. šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2000, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/22 "2000-07-09T15:31:43Z")
Hey! I resemble that remark! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2000, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/23 "2000-07-10T03:35:56Z")
[hijack] Dropzone wrote: > [@](#): > > I STILL feel welcome in the ELCA. It is the most modern church Iā€™ve foundā€¦The Missouri Synod seems to be completely unrelated. My nephew goes to one of their schools and is being taught Creationism, fer cryin out loud. You are quite right. The ELCA was the product of a major merger in, I believe, 1977. The American Lutheran Church (ALC), Lutheran Church in America (LCA) and the much smaller Evangelical Lutheran Church (ELC) got together. In general, Lutherans in America tended to remain in ethnic groupings until quite late, compared to other denominations. Each of the above organizations was formed from the merger of smaller bodies. There were major differences between the ALC and the LCA, not simply in terms of Swedish or Norwegian, but in terms of church polity, decision making power of congregations, and general attitude toward conflict within the denomination, to name a few of the major differences. The ELCA has never fully reconciled these differences. On the plus side, this has created a very inclusive denomination, as you noted. On the minus side, there is very little denominational loyalty per se, and quite a few issues are buried just under the surface. Someone mentioned the ecumenical agreement with the Episcopalians. (Called to Common Mission - CCM) Because this, as written, involves the ELCA accepting the Episcopalian understanding of the historic episcopate (a long topic in itself-just trust me that it has been a problem) a large segment of ELCA congregations has flatly refused to implement CCM. (They stress that they are not anti-Episcopalian, see [http://www.wordalone.org](http://www.wordalone.org) for more information.) This has brought a lot of the above mentioned differences to the surface, and the ELCA could conceivably break apart over this. I hope not. The Missouri Synod is quite different. Unlike other Lutherans, who emigrated to America and just happened to be Lutheran, Missouri came to this country from Germany in the mid-1800ā€™s en masse, specifically in order to have freedom of worship. They have always been more independent than other Lutherans, and less prone to assimilation. In the 1970s, as the result of Seminex (donā€™t ask unless you actually want an explanation!), everyone relatively liberal was thrown out of the Missouri Synod. Most of them joined the ALC, and eventually the ELCA. The ones who were left have been getting more and more conservative over the years, kind of a self-reinforcing spiral. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2000, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/24 "2000-07-10T03:46:47Z")
The more liberal members were thrown out in the Seventies? Sounds like what happened to us Liberal Republicans, which didnā€™t USED to be an oxymoron: Lincoln, Rockefeller, Anderson, etc. As for atheists, pagans, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, etc coming out ahead after a properly-run pogrom, no such luck, guys! Yaā€™ll are dead FIRST! Of course, thatā€™s all theoretical. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Peta\_Tzunami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2000, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/25 "2000-07-10T11:24:17Z")
[Futurama]OK, nobody destroy Libertarian. Unless you _have_ to. [/Futurama] ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2000, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/26 "2000-07-10T11:42:24Z")
An Erisian Hymn by Rev. Dr. Mungojerry Grindlebone, KOB Episkopos, THE RAYVILLE APPLE PANTHERS Onward Christian Soldiers, Onward Buddhist Priests, Onward Fruits of Islam, Fight till youā€™re deceased. Fight your little battles, Join in thickest fray; For the Greater Glory, of Dis-cor-di-a. Yah, yah, yah, Yah, yah, yah, yah. Blfffffffffft! ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2000, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/27 "2000-07-10T15:31:40Z")
**Moderatorā€™s Notes:** Sheesh. You guys sure know how to give a moderator fits. This thread could be in nearly any forum; we have IMHO, GD & BBQ material in here, probably some MPSIMS, too. But ā€¦ After a bit of deliberation and some good advice from the other moderators, Iā€™m sending it to Great Debates. Youā€™ll just have to restrain yourselves a bit. Gaudere, David, here ya go! ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/28 "2000-07-11T04:39:41Z")
Iā€™m a Celtic Christian. We believe that nearly ALL other religions (with the exception of satanism, etc) to be valid and have some core truths. Yes, and especially Pagan religions, we absorbed most of the druids, and at least one pagan Goddess (St. Bridget). The only thing we are intolerant about is ā€¦ intolerance. Oh, sure, we believe our Way is the best, but that does not mean other ways are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/29 "2000-07-11T14:59:41Z")
Danielinthewolvesden: Sounds to me that being a Celtic Christian is not that dissimilar to being a Uniterian Universalist, am I correct? A UU member could, of course, follow Christ and still be a UU member, though they are in the minority, I will admit. Are there ā€œCelticā€ churches and is this a separate denomination? How and where do you worship? * * * Yer pal, Satan _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Three months, two days, 12 hours, 58 minutes and 30 seconds. 3741 cigarettes not smoked, saving $467.70. Life saved: 1 week, 5 days, 23 hours, 45 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/30 "2000-07-11T23:18:33Z")
ā€œde-excommunicated Martin Lutherā€ ROFL! doesnā€™t that mean that God would have to go to hell, find Martin Luther and take him out of hell? wouldnā€™t he need satanā€™s permission? do those clowns in rome have any brains whatsoever? we just tell god how to run the metaphysical universe any time we want. LOL! do you get the impression iā€™m not catholic? ``` Dal Timgar ``` ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/31 "2000-07-12T02:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > do you get the impression iā€™m not catholic? No. Just not very informed. Excommunication does not send anyone to hell (although Iā€™m sure any number of people have felt that it should or does). Excommunication means that a person is no longer a member of the group/denomination/religion/whatever. It is up to God to figure out who is or is not in hell. Actually, I doubt that the RCC ever removed M. Lutherā€™s excommunication. There have been several statements by the RCC that indicated a softening of the hard line attitude toward Lutherā€™s theology, but I have never seen anything indicating that he was ā€œre-instated.ā€ It is unlikely that the RCC would ever ā€œremoveā€ the excommunication, even if it comes to embrace his theology (an unlikely event in its own right). During his life, Luther took certain steps and committed certain acts that put himself outside the RCC. The RCC could decide that 94 theses were correct and it still would not change the fact that Luther took himself out of the RCC. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/32 "2000-07-12T03:13:17Z")
Satan: well, the core of our belief is Jesus, so that is one major difference, Ie, you canā€™t BE a Celtic Christian without professing a belief in Jesus as Saviour. The Church was also called the ā€œCuldeeā€ or St. Columban Church. If you read the book, ā€œHow the Irish saved Civilizationā€, you can get an idea of our heyday. The Church suffered persecution by the Catholics, and it nearly died out. However, there has been a recent upsurge, now that Celtic stuff and mysticism is popular. Most actual Churches are in Canada, Ireland, Scotland, etc. I participate by Email, believe it or not. Just to give you an idea how ā€œmodernā€ my Church is, my Bishop is a woman. Please note, I am not all that religous, being somewhay of a 'doubter", but the CCC fits my beliefs to a T. Intolerance is the BIG ā€œno-noā€ just as JC preached. We hold the Gospels to be the only ā€œholyā€ NT books, and consider the rest to be ā€œholy historyā€, as opposed to ā€œthe Lawā€. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/33 "2000-07-12T05:07:53Z")
Actually, the world would be saved if we all became Unitarian Universalists - that way we could all believe our own faiths without having to fight about them all the time. Sheesh! When will you people learn? šŸ˜‰ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2000, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/34 "2000-07-13T05:30:44Z")
Esprix I was reading an article in Rolling Stone about gay boy scouts. There was a marvellous picture of a ā€œpastorā€ with a placard which said ā€œGOD HATES FAGSā€ (his caps not mine). Howā€™s that for tolerance and turning the other cheek? Turn the other cheek - is that a come on for queers? Get thee behind me Satan - is that another one? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981/35 "2000-07-13T16:57:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colin Wilkinson \* > > I was reading an article in Rolling Stone about gay boy scouts. There was a marvellous picture of a ā€œpastorā€ with a placard which said ā€œGOD HATES FAGSā€ (his caps not mine). Howā€™s that for tolerance and turning the other cheek? Ah, you are referring to the infamous Rev. Fred Phelps and his wonderful website, [GodHatesFags.com](http://www.godhatesfags.com). Heā€™s a wacko, but at least heā€™s consistent - he truly believes that the only way to save homosexuals from an eternity in Hell is to use shock tactics to make them change their sinful ways. He also brought his happy little band (mostly his own family) to Matthew Shepardā€™s funeral and the Millenium March on Washington this past April. > [@](#): > > Turn the other cheek - is that a come on for queers? > Get thee behind me Satan - is that another one? Youā€™d have to ask **Drain Bead** about that last oneā€¦ šŸ˜‰ Esprix [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-vs-christians/24981.md?page=1)