# Christians, what are you talking about?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936 "2011-04-02T13:09:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/1 "2011-04-02T13:09:52Z")
You believe that God sent himself on a suicide mission to pay for sins committed by the first humans. Seriously as adult, is it possible to believe this story with a straight face? I am absolutely flabbergasted ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/2 "2011-04-02T13:24:48Z")
Moving from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/3 "2011-04-02T13:32:20Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Moving from IMHO to Great Debates. Seems to me that this is Pit-Lite; All the great taste of a regular rant and 1/3 less calories. (and 15/16 less intellect) ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/4 "2011-04-02T13:46:30Z")
and any of the bitter after taste _effort_ would have produced. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/5 "2011-04-02T14:07:19Z")
I believe God Loves His children so much that He would be willing to die so we can have eternal life. We sometimes see this today as a parental, or perhaps more though of as a maternal ‘instinct’ where you may hear someone say I would die to save my child - though that is not instinct, but Love, which is God. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/6 "2011-04-02T14:07:32Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > You believe that God sent himself on a suicide mission to pay for sins committed by the first humans. > > Seriously as adult, is it possible to believe this story with a straight face? I am absolutely flabbergasted Are you one of those people looking for some logical contradiction in the Bible that’s so great it will obligate all believers to stop believing? Look harder. I’m not sure your description fits any theology I’m aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/7 "2011-04-02T14:19:30Z")
Don’t we have about twenty of these threads going on right now? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/8 "2011-04-02T15:02:19Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe God Loves His children so much that He would be willing to die so we can have eternal life. We sometimes see this today as a parental, or perhaps more though of as a maternal ‘instinct’ where you may hear someone say I would die to save my child - though that is not instinct, but Love, which is God. But if a parent dies protecting a child, the parent is gone permanently. All God did was give up a weekend. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/9 "2011-04-02T15:25:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Don’t we have about twenty of these threads going on right now? :rolleyes: Don’t exaggerate. It’s only 19! This could be the one that finally convinces religious people that they’re nuts!!! ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/10 "2011-04-02T16:15:24Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > You believe that God sent himself on a suicide mission to pay for sins committed by the first humans. > > Seriously as adult, is it possible to believe this story with a straight face? I am absolutely flabbergasted You’re kidding, right? That’s the only part of the bible that makes any sense at all. Sending his only son to be murdered by savages to atone for the sins of Adam and Eve is exactly the kind of fucked up plan I’d expect a son of a bitch like God to come up with. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/11 "2011-04-02T16:19:11Z")
It would look like this thread will not bring any Christians to their senses. Go figure. Not to worry, though. It may serve as a repository of witless, juvenile, idiotic comments from the enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/12 "2011-04-02T16:25:08Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > But if a parent dies protecting a child, the parent is gone permanently. All God did was give up a weekend. A _long_ weekend. How many of those do we get a year? [QUOTE=Cumberdale] Are you one of those people looking for some logical contradiction in the Bible that’s so great it will obligate all believers to stop believing? Look harder. I’m not sure your description fits any theology I’m aware of. [/QUOTE] Except for the post immediately preceding yours. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/13 "2011-04-02T16:27:36Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Are you one of those people looking for some logical contradiction in the Bible that’s so great it will obligate all believers to stop believing? Didn’t you ever watch _Star Trek_? The idea with the logical contradictions is to make them catch on fire and explode! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/14 "2011-04-02T17:36:44Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > You believe that God sent himself on a suicide mission to pay for sins committed by the first humans. > > Seriously as adult, is it possible to believe this story with a straight face? I am absolutely flabbergasted It’s an allegory, and people only pretend to believe it as an extended in-group joke (which also leads persons who are not members of the group to amusing fits). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/15 "2011-04-02T18:12:05Z")
The OP’s question is a fair one, and one that we do _not_ have a current thread about (though it’s come up frequently in the past). It might not be articulated very politely, but the essental question about Christian salvation theology is not unfair. Different Christians are going to offer different interpretations, but the truth is that it has its roots in beliefs that gods respond to animal sacrifice, and specifically in the ancient Jewish practice of sacrificing an unblemished lamb at Passover for an annual forgiveness of sins. The lambs were killed at the Temple, and their blood was poured on the altar, and sins were forgiven for the year. After the crucifixion of Jesus, his followers interpreted that event as the ultimate Paschal sacrifice. The perfect, “unblemished lamb” whose blood “washed away the sins of the world,” not just for the year, but for all time. This interpretation followed from previous beliefs about sacrifice, and really do break down if one attempts to analyze them too closely. The idea of God requiring a sacrifice at all is very difficult to explain anymore, but that belief had its roots in much more primitive perceptions of gods. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/16 "2011-04-02T18:13:18Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > You’re kidding, right? That’s the only part of the bible that makes any sense at all. Sending his only son to be murdered by savages to atone for the sins of Adam and Eve is exactly the kind of fucked up plan I’d expect a son of a bitch like God to come up with. I thought God and Jesus was the same person. The thing I found most confusing was the fact that he sent himself. Guess I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/17 "2011-04-02T18:36:07Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > I thought God and Jesus was the same person. The thing I found most confusing was the fact that he sent himself. Guess I was wrong. It’s not your fault that you though God & Jesus were/are the same person. Many, many millions of Christians think the same thing. And you’re all wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/18 "2011-04-02T18:48:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The OP’s question is a fair one, and one that we do _not_ have a current thread about (though it’s come up frequently in the past). It might not be articulated very politely, but the essental question about Christian salvation theology is not unfair. > > Different Christians are going to offer different interpretations, but the truth is that it has its roots in beliefs that gods respond to animal sacrifice, and specifically in the ancient Jewish practice of sacrificing an unblemished lamb at Passover for an annual forgiveness of sins. The lambs were killed at the Temple, and their blood was poured on the altar, and sins were forgiven for the year. > > After the crucifixion of Jesus, his followers interpreted that event as the ultimate Paschal sacrifice. The perfect, “unblemished lamb” whose blood “washed away the sins of the world,” not just for the year, but for all time. > > This interpretation followed from previous beliefs about sacrifice, and really do break down if one attempts to analyze them too closely. The idea of God requiring a sacrifice at all is very difficult to explain anymore, but that belief had its roots in much more primitive perceptions of gods. I’m much less offended----believe it or not----by incivility than I am laziness. In fairness to the OP he didn’t initially post it in GD; it appears to have been brought here kicking and screaming. But I see little reason to perform intellectual CPR on an OP so we can have something to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/19 "2011-04-02T18:55:43Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I’m much less offended----believe it or not----by incivility than I am laziness. In fairness to the OP he didn’t initially post it in GD; it appears to have been brought here kicking and screaming. > > But I see little reason to perform intellectual CPR on an OP so we can have something to talk about. So please help me if I am oversimplifying things. What did I get wrong in the original post? Is this a major part of Christian belief or is it not. If I am right, how is this not a valid question? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/20 "2011-04-02T18:58:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Don’t exaggerate. It’s only 19! This could be the one that finally convinces religious people that they’re nuts!!! I doubt it. And, although I don’t know what kind of apple she fed to Adam, I _met Eve personally_ in a shady dancehall in S.E. Thailand, so I can confirm that at least that much of the story is true. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936.md?page=2)