# Christians, what are you talking about?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936 "2011-04-02T13:09:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/101 "2011-04-04T17:32:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You mentioned that over a billion other adults believe what you do. That sounded like a pretty bald appeal to popularity. I was just mentioning that your preferred delusion isn’t accepted by most people. Ehh, strictly speaking this wasn’t an argument for the truth of Christianity so I’m unsure the charge of “appeal to authority” is quite right. The question was “Do people believe this?”; the response “Yes, a billion do” is an affirmative answer. In that respect your comment really was a bit … non-sequiturial (and perhaps a bit hostile), even if correct. > [@](#): > > Also, you mentioned that Jesus’ death was a sacrifice. Clearly it was a trivial sacrifice by any measure. The reason death is a sacrifice for humans is it leads to oblivion. For Jesus, if you accept His divinity, it was probably akin to taking off a tie and slipping his shoes off. Well, you could argue this stuff all day long. I’m not at all of a mind to accept Jesus’s divinity, but he _was_ supposed to be all human; he was tortured and killed and he felt every moment of it (along with the attendant doubts). Many Christians believe that he resided in hell for a period of time which could have, to them, felt like an eternity. Was it a huge sacrifice? I dunno. But it would’ve been _something_. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/102 "2011-04-04T17:50:51Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Well, you could argue this stuff all day long. I’m not at all of a mind to accept Jesus’s divinity, but he _was_ supposed to be all human; he was tortured and killed and he felt every moment of it (along with the attendant doubts). Many Christians believe that he resided in hell for a period of time which could have, to them, felt like an eternity. Was it a huge sacrifice? I dunno. But it would’ve been _something_. Even so, millions of people before and after him have suffered even worse tortures. I don’t see how his small amount of suffering has changed anything. It all seems rather pointless and the fact that so many people still believe this nonsense is a rather sad commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/103 "2011-04-04T18:03:49Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I suppose a trinitarian could reply that God-qua-Jesus could be in hell, while the bandit entered paradise with God-qua-Father. But I’m not aware of any obligation (at least in Roman Catholicism) to believe that Christ _literally_ entered some place called hell or that he remained there until his resurrection; “descendit ad inferos” could refer to effect of his sacrifice to redeem the just who had previously died. Wasn’t he releasing the virtuous pagans while he was at it? Just because he was in hell doesn’t mean he was suffering the torments of hell. After all, Dante got through without a scratch. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/104 "2011-04-04T18:04:12Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > Even so, millions of people before and after him have suffered even worse tortures. I don’t see how his small amount of suffering has changed anything. It all seems rather pointless and the fact that so many people still believe this nonsense is a rather sad commentary. Well, possibly, although there are lots of ways to [del]engage in special pleading[/del] work this out—who knows exactly what Jesus suffered? Or perhaps the scale is simply different because he’s God. But it’s probably a mistake to view this as some unit-for-unit exchange of suffering in any event. As discussed earlier in the thread, this bit of Christian theology should be examined in the context of Judaic sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/105 "2011-04-04T18:14:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe God Loves His children so much that He would be willing to die so we can have eternal life. We sometimes see this today as a parental, or perhaps more though of as a maternal ‘instinct’ where you may hear someone say I would die to save my child - though that is not instinct, but Love, which is God. The idea of sacrificial love is understandable. The idea that a divine all loving , creator of all would need a physical sacrifice to forgive us, makes no sense at all. IMO, it contradicts every positive quality attributed to said being. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/106 "2011-04-04T18:18:55Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Moving from IMHO to Great Debates. Why don’t you start a Christianity Pit so you can cast this inexhaustible supply of similar threads in? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/107 "2011-04-04T18:34:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Plus it wasn’t three days. It was from friday afternoon to sometime sunday morning, so it was less than 48 hours. I was about to post something similar, but it wasn’t even 48 hours. From Friday, what, evening? To before dawn on Sunday. As Mr. Deity persuasively explained to [del]Jesse[/del] Jesus, “It’ll be thirty-six hours, tops. Thirty-five if we do it on a weekend when the time changes.” ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/108 "2011-04-04T18:47:47Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > It isn’t obvious to me that Jesus didn’t perform miracles. What is obvious to me is that while I can’t prove he did, you can’t prove he didn’t. > > It’s also obvious to me that your burden is no less in proving the texts that say he did perform miracles are untrue, and that the methods you might use to do so are either a form of witnessing, or a misuse of science, or both. > > Isn’t that true? > > In other words, I’m comfortable with my faith. Can you say the same? The more we learn, scientifically, about the history of Bible, the more likely it becomes that the story told in the gospels is fiction. You can choose top believe it’s historically true, but that becomes more and more obviously, clinging to tradition rather than evidence and reason. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/109 "2011-04-18T09:35:41Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I was about to post something similar, but it wasn’t even 48 hours. From Friday, what, evening? To before dawn on Sunday. > > As Mr. Deity persuasively explained to [del]Jesse[/del] Jesus, “It’ll be thirty-six hours, tops. Thirty-five if we do it on a weekend when the time changes.” I tried to bring this up as a Biblical contradiction in an argument, but someone once explained this to me this way. “The Gospel accounts tell us that Jesus had to be buried quickly, because the next day was a Sabbath, and that He rose again after the Sabbath. If you assume that the Sabbath referred to was a Saturday, then Jesus was in the tomb two nights and one day. But Jesus was crucified on the feast of Passover and the day after Passover is always a Sabbath no matter what day of the week it is. If He was buried before this Sabbath and resurrected after the Saturday Sabbath then a Wednesday Passover would give 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb.” Being the skeptical atheist I am, I looked this up. [http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/spring-phenom](http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/spring-phenom) In the year 31 AD, the Vernal Equinox was on Friday March 23, 5am (accounting for +2 hours Jerusalem time from Greenwich meantime). The new moon was Tuesday April 10, 2pm. First evening of visible crescent was Wednesday April 11. Date of the first of Nisan (beginning at sundown the evening before…) was Thursday April 12. The 14th day of Nisan (Passover) was Wednesday April 25. Doing the math, if Jesus was in his 33rd year and had not yet reached his 34th birthday, this would put him as being born in 4 BC (there being no year 0), which is the accepted date of the death of Herod the Great. Now, I’ve rarely heard this argument used before, and I’m not convinced of the historical personage regardless, but the math seems to work out. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/110 "2011-04-18T09:46:56Z")
Here was the other source I used. [http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/Passover\_dates.htm](http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/Passover_dates.htm) ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/111 "2011-04-18T11:31:33Z")
> [@](#): > > …if this God exists he conceived, designed ,implemented , and ultimately governs the laws of physics. > > So I must insist that miracles are indeed “physically impossible” for us, but it is equally ridiculous for me ascribe the same limitations to the creator that the creator has imposed on the created. I’ve never understood why it’s so easy to give God the property of being able to violate the laws of physics He authored, but somehow He can’t disregard His arbitrary rules and forgive us for being human and being descended from other non-perfect humans. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/112 "2011-04-18T13:29:10Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > I tried to bring this up as a Biblical contradiction in an argument, but someone once explained this to me this way. > > “The Gospel accounts tell us that Jesus had to be buried quickly, because the next day was a Sabbath, and that He rose again after the Sabbath. If you assume that the Sabbath referred to was a Saturday, then Jesus was in the tomb two nights and one day. But Jesus was crucified on the feast of Passover and the day after Passover is always a Sabbath no matter what day of the week it is. If He was buried before this Sabbath and resurrected after the Saturday Sabbath then a Wednesday Passover would give 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb.” > > Being the skeptical atheist I am, I looked this up. > > [http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/spring-phenom](http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/spring-phenom) > > In the year 31 AD, the Vernal Equinox was on Friday March 23, 5am (accounting for +2 hours Jerusalem time from Greenwich meantime). The new moon was Tuesday April 10, 2pm. First evening of visible crescent was Wednesday April 11. Date of the first of Nisan (beginning at sundown the evening before…) was Thursday April 12. The 14th day of Nisan (Passover) was Wednesday April 25. Doing the math, if Jesus was in his 33rd year and had not yet reached his 34th birthday, this would put him as being born in 4 BC (there being no year 0), which is the accepted date of the death of Herod the Great. > > Now, I’ve rarely heard this argument used before, and I’m not convinced of the historical personage regardless, but the math seems to work out. The Gospels all explicitly say that Jesus was crucified on friday and raised on sunday. They differ in that the synoptics say that friday was the first day of Passover that year (with the Last Supper being a Seder the night before), while John depicts friday as the Day of Preparation in order to make Jesus’ death coincide with the slaughter of the Pascal lambs. It’s also not true that the day after the first day of Passover is always a sabbbath. The seventh day of Passover is always treated as a sabbath, but not the 2nd. The firts day of Passover is Nissan 15, not 14, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/113 "2011-04-18T15:09:56Z")
Yeah, I’m trying to make sense of this guy’s argument. Looking at the source, I’m not sure how they translate the Gregorian Wednesday to the Jewish Wednesday, so I can’t really vouch for the year, now that I think about it. I’ll look further into it. Problem is you can’t trust apologetic sources because they will massage anything to agree with their stance. But here’s how his argument works: (He said day after Passover, but I think he meant the first actual day of Passover, which is a High Sabbath) If Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday (preparation day for High Sabbath) and in the ground by Wednesday night (Night 1), Thursday (which started Weds night) is the High Sabbath (first day of Passover) (Day 1, Night 2), Friday is the second preparation day that week (Day 2, Night 3), Saturday is the regular weekly Sabbath (Day 3) and Jesus rose before dawn (which means he didn’t spend a 4th night) on Sunday (the first day of the week). Does it say Friday, explicitly? Not that I’m an expert, but it appears to me they use the phrase “preparation” day, which is _assumed_ to be Friday but not explicitly Friday. The first and seventh days of Passover (depending on the branch of Judaism) are High Holidays and are essentially (yearly) Sabbaths. The days before would be preparation days. > [@](#): > > Leviticus 23:5-8 > > 5In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD’s passover. > > 6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. > > 7In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. > > 8But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. > > Numbers 28:16-25 (King James Version) > > 16And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD. > > 17And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. > > 18In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein: > > 25And on the seventh day ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work. > [@](#): > > Mark 15:42-43 (King James Version) > > 42And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, > > 43Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. > > Mark 16 > > 1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. > > 2And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. > > John 19:31 (King James Version) > > 31The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. > > John 20 > > 1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. > > Luke 23:52-56 (King James Version) > > 52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. > > 53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. > > 54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. > > 55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. > > 56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. > > Luke 24 (King James Version) > > Luke 24 > > 1Now upon the first day of the week , very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. > > 2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. > > 3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. > > Matthew 27:62 (King James Version) > > 62Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, > > Matthew 28 > > 1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. > > 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/114 "2011-04-18T15:35:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Different Christians are going to offer different interpretations, but the truth is that it has its roots in beliefs that gods respond to animal sacrifice, and specifically in the ancient Jewish practice of sacrificing an unblemished lamb at Passover for an annual forgiveness of sins. The lambs were killed at the Temple, and their blood was poured on the altar, and sins were forgiven for the year. Don’t forget the fact that we barbequed Lamb Chop afterward. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/115 "2011-04-18T15:39:12Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Sorry, this is exactly wrong. It is almost the most wrong thing ever uttered. Frankly, if Jesus was simply another teacher, then who gives a shit? You might like the message or not, but it’s totally irrelevant. Mankind has never lacked for good advice, and he wouldn’t be any more interesting or relevant than any other. No, what sets him apart is that he wasn’t Greco-Roman or precisely Jewish. He was God Incarnate. The miracles\* may, ultimately, be only a symbol of his power and being, but they are what makes him a prophet and not a philosopher. > > Jesus brought a moral _revolution_ which was also a _restoration_. People who only do the former create nightmares. People who only do the latter are universally obnoxious and hidebound. But he did both at once, something I’ve never seen outside of the Christian tradition (and rarely inside it, but c’est la vie). > > \*I initially wrote moracles. I like that. Moral-cles. I disagree. IMO as a teacher Jesus message is much more significant than any of the myths, as well as one we still haven’t internalized enough to live. I think philosophers and certain spiritual leaders have a certain grasp of the world and reality that they try to teach and pass on, but the world in general can only receive it and live it as they are ready. That’s why it’s still relevant today. The same message or a similar message may well be taught by others as the essential truth of it asserts itself to different people at different ages. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/116 "2011-04-18T15:44:40Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Don’t forget the fact that we barbequed Lamb Chop afterward. And don’t forget that not only some sins required animal sacrifice…or that Passover is not some festival for the ‘annual forgiving of sins’. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/117 "2011-04-18T15:50:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The Gospels all explicitly say that Jesus was crucified on friday and raised on sunday. They differ in that the synoptics say that friday was the first day of Passover that year (with the Last Supper being a Seder the night before), while John depicts friday as the Day of Preparation in order to make Jesus’ death coincide with the slaughter of the Pascal lambs. > > It’s also not true that the day after the first day of Passover is always a sabbbath. The seventh day of Passover is always treated as a sabbath, but not the 2nd. > > The firts day of Passover is Nissan 15, not 14, by the way. It begins the night before on a Gregorian calendar, so today is 14 Nissan and tonight is 15 Nissan at sundown. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/118 "2011-04-18T16:28:50Z")
The Day of preparation can refer to either the friday preparations for the Sabbath or to the day before Passover (remember that Jewish days are measured from sundown to sundown, though, so the Day of Preparation and the Passover Seder occur on the same calander day). The Gospels all say that Jesus was crucified on the day before the Sabbath and raised on the day after (“on the first day of the week”). The question you’re raising, as I understand it, is whether the “Sabbath” referred to is the High Holy day or the regular Sabbath. This depends on which Gospel you want to believe. The synoptics all explicitly say that Jesus was crucified on the Feast day, the first day of Passover. That the last supper was a Seder, that he was crucified the next day (which was still the same day by Jewish measurement), and that the day after _that_ was a Sabbath. John says that Jesus was killed on the Day of Preparation and times his death with the slaughter of the sacrificial lambs at the Temple. They all then say that the empty tomb was discovered after the sabbath “on the first day of the week,” which was sunday. It’s hard to make an arguiment that the synoptics could have been saying Jesus was killed on any day but a friday, since the next day was a sabbath and since they clearly say that the Passover feast had already happened the night before. They have Jesus being crucified _on_ the first day of Passover, so that’s not what they could have been referring to when the said the next day was a sabbath. John has Jesus killed on the day of Preparation and the next day as Passover, but he also phrases it in such a way (“that sabbath was a high day”) as to imply that it was a regular sabbath which happened to fall on a high day, not that it was a sabbath only _because_ it was a high holy day. I think the apologetic you’re describing has to explain why the synpotics clearly state that the Last Supper was the Passover feast. This would seem to directly contradict a hypothesis that Jesus was killed on the Day of Preparation. There is, of course, a contradiction between John and the synoptics, regradless. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/119 "2011-04-18T16:34:10Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > And don’t forget that not only some sins required animal sacrifice…or that Passover is not some festival for the ‘annual forgiving of sins’. 😕 Nobody said it was. I said the sacrifice of the lamb was for the forgivesness of sins. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936/120 "2011-04-18T16:39:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > John has Jesus killed on the day of Preparation and the next day as Passover, but he also phrases it in such a way (“that sabbath was a high day”) as to imply that it was a regular sabbath which happened to fall on a high day, not that it was a sabbath only _because_ it was a high holy day. > > I think the apologetic you’re describing has to explain why the synpotics clearly state that the Last Supper was the Passover feast. This would seem to directly contradict a hypothesis that Jesus was killed on the Day of Preparation. > > There is, of course, a contradiction between John and the synoptics, regradless. In addition, the Haggadah and any set of prayers for holidays have additional or alternate language if that day falls on a Sabbath - thus it is not true that a holiday is a Sabbath no matter what day of the week it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-are-you-talking-about/576936.md?page=7)