# Christians: What Do You Believe In? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 12, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115 "2013-02-12T20:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![the\_O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@the\_O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_O)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/21 "2013-02-13T00:11:30Z")
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. I believe that if the kingdom of God is within me, then it must be within you as well, no matter what you say you believe. ---
**Author:** ![Jr.DNA\_test](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d78d45/32.png) [@Jr.DNA\_test](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jr.DNA_test)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/22 "2013-02-13T00:15:36Z")
Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Pinmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@Pinmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pinmin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/23 "2013-02-13T02:11:39Z")
> [@the\_O](#): > > Luke 17:21 > Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. > > I believe that if the kingdom of God is within me, then it must be within you as well, no matter what you say you believe. The “within you” is an archaic use that is more accurately translated today as “within your midst” or “among you.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/24 "2013-02-13T02:44:01Z")
> [@Jr.DNA\_test](#): > > No offense but I don’t get the love thy neighbor as yourself vibes from you people. Are you sure you don’t have other motivations? And I’m not thinking of exploiting someone else. Who are the “you people” you’re refering to and what sort of motivations do you think they have? ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/25 "2013-02-13T06:09:53Z")
[quote=“the\_O, post:21, topic:650115”] Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. I believe that if the kingdom of God is within me, then it must be within you as well, no matter what you say you believe.[/QUOTE One of my all time favorite song lyrics is “Nobody’s god says ‘hate your neighbor’ even if your neighbor doesn’t believe in God.” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/26 "2013-02-13T06:11:49Z")
Here’s a good summary: [http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf\_with\_proofs/](http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/) ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/27 "2013-02-13T09:29:30Z")
I think the OP’s question is absolutely valid. There is a big difference, after all, between the official dogma of any given church and the actual beliefs held by its individual members. Take **Qin Shi Huangdi** ’s link above, for example - the Westminster Confession of Faith, dealing with concepts such as “Effectual Calling” and “Repentance unto Life”, about which the average church member might have only the very foggiest of notions. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/28 "2013-02-13T14:10:08Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m Christian and generally happy to discuss my beliefs, but your topic is too open-ended. Is there something more specific about Christian belief you’d like to discuss? Here’s what I noticed about the churches in Fremont, CA. The congregations seem like they are getting older. My guess is that they are 45 and older. This of course is an estimate, I don’t generally go around asking people their ages. Does this appear to be the case in your area of the country? If so, do you have any explanation for it? Is the church still relevant to the younger generation? However, there is also St. James Catholic Church which is across town which appears to have a younger congregation. But it has a predominately Filipino congregation and they are a lot more family oriented. I believe that is the primary reason why they’ve been able to attract younger adults. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/29 "2013-02-13T14:12:59Z")
Well, I’m totally with the Nicene Creed- every article. On various issues- Old-Earth Creationist & perhaps even a Theistic Evolutionist with a historic Adam-Eve Fall into Sin, and a regional (Eurasian? Mediterranean?) Deluge that destroyed Adamic Civilization. Very close to referring to The Holy Spirit as God the Mother. 95% Pro-Life with the usual exceptions. Christian Zionist who hopes that a Palestinian state can emerge which can peacefully live with Israel, used to be a Rapturist but no longer believes in a soon End-Times, believes instead Israel’s restoration as a nation intertwines with the growth of the Messianic Jewish community, leading perhaps to the eventual Evangelization & Discipleship of humanity. I believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, including tongues, but I don’t believe Tongues is the special sign of experiencing the Holy Spirit. Over 30 years in Charismatic circles has convinced me of that. God has more Grace & trickiness than to abandon most of humanity to whatever Hell we deserve- and He doesn’t have to let a little thing like death-before-salvation get in his way. There is no worse Hell for some people than to be enveloped in the Compassionate Embrace of God & raging to get out. His Inescapable Light will be the ‘Lake of Fire’. Throw out some issues & I’ll do my best to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/30 "2013-02-13T14:21:27Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > God has more Grace & trickiness than to abandon most of humanity to whatever Hell we deserve- and He doesn’t have to let a little thing like death-before-salvation get in his way. > > There is no worse Hell for some people than to be enveloped in the Compassionate Embrace of God & raging to get out. His Inescapable Light will be the ‘Lake of Fire’. I agree. “God our Savior… wants all people to be saved” (I Tim 2:2-3). I wouldn’t bet against him. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/31 "2013-02-13T14:26:07Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I agree. “God our Savior… wants all people to be saved” (I Tim 2:2-3). I wouldn’t bet against him. Is there any difference between God our Savior and Jesus our Savior. For some reason I’ve always favored the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/32 "2013-02-13T14:44:50Z")
Both God the Father and Jesus are referred to as “Savior” in the Bible, so either would be correct. I usually think of Jesus as “the savior” but in my post I was quoting the author of First Timothy. ---
**Author:** ![Jr.DNA\_test](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d78d45/32.png) [@Jr.DNA\_test](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jr.DNA_test)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/33 "2013-02-13T15:03:01Z")
🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/34 "2013-02-13T15:04:35Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Who are the “you people” you’re refering to and what sort of motivations do you think they have? By the way, people from other religions and atheists are welcomed on this thread. As far as I know there are no hidden agendas on this thread. If there are, please inform us of what you think these agendas are. ---
**Author:** ![Jr.DNA\_test](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d78d45/32.png) [@Jr.DNA\_test](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jr.DNA_test)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/35 "2013-02-13T15:18:07Z")
Some of the posts smack of prideful assertion than a truer Christian ethos. It’s obvious that Jesus didn’t write the Bible either. It’s even more obvious that if all the people who have pretensions to being Christian were actually Christian the world would be a very different place. But it’s far easier to have Jesus on the tip of your tongue and to take comfort and solace from him than to follow his not really impenetrable teachings and be like Jesus. For those who believe in Judgment and Heaven/Hell it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to read them Bibles more carefully lest you find yourselves wearing too much clothing for your afterlife destination. Inconvenient. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/36 "2013-02-13T15:25:38Z")
> [@Jr.DNA\_test](#): > > Some of the posts smack of prideful assertion than a truer Christian ethos. It’s obvious that Jesus didn’t write the Bible either. It’s even more obvious that if all the people who have pretensions to being Christian were actually Christian the world would be a very different place. But it’s far easier to have Jesus on the tip of your tongue and to take comfort and solace from him than to follow his not really impenetrable teachings and be like Jesus. For those who believe in Judgment and Heaven/Hell it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to read them Bibles more carefully lest you find yourselves wearing too much clothing for your afterlife destination. Inconvenient. I agree with you pride is a major sin and the less we have of it on this thread, the better. Personally, I believe that I’m a servant of God. But sometimes that also leads to pride. I start correcting my Pastor…he’s not too happy about that. ---
**Author:** ![Jr.DNA\_test](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d78d45/32.png) [@Jr.DNA\_test](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jr.DNA_test)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/37 "2013-02-13T15:32:13Z")
😃 The thing is, when read properly many of these things you’d find in religious texts are obviously ideals. If people were to be what they should be according to the Bible, Quran, etc. Hell might be looking at a mirror image of itself. A fun-house mirror image. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/38 "2013-02-13T15:38:35Z")
> [@Jr.DNA\_test](#): > > 😃 > > The thing is, when read properly many of these things you’d find in religious texts are obviously ideals. If people were to be what they should be according to the Bible, Quran, etc. Hell might be looking at a mirror image of itself. A fun-house mirror image. 😛 You strike me as being young and idealistic. From what you’ve posted, my guess is that you are in your 30’s. Is that close? Do you look at the NT as an answer book or do you think of it as more of an aide on man’s spiritual quest? I’m inclined towards thinking of NT as an aid. ---
**Author:** ![Jr.DNA\_test](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d78d45/32.png) [@Jr.DNA\_test](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jr.DNA_test)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/39 "2013-02-13T15:43:48Z")
If idealistic certainly not in the typical way. In short, I look at all religious texts as demonstrably false insofar as they claim to be the Word of God. The insight into human nature and the human condition is where their true value lies. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115/40 "2013-02-13T15:45:17Z")
> [@Jr.DNA\_test](#): > > If idealistic certainly not in the typical way. In short, I look at all religious texts as demonstrably false insofar as they claim to be the Word of God. The insight into human nature and the human condition is where their true value lies. I agree. However, Christians believe NT was inspired by the Holy Spirit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-do-you-believe-in/650115.md?page=3)