# Christians: What is your best evidence for the literal, historical resurrection of Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680 "2011-08-22T17:51:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/221 "2011-08-28T08:08:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > … > I’m not asking for intellectual arguments for every part of Christianity, or for the existence of God. I’m just asking to see the evidence/argument for one thing - the physical resurrection of Jesus, This is a _prima facie_ impossible event. That means the evidence is going to have to be pretty exceptional to overcome the null. Let’s see it. There isn’t any. No minimally educated person would not know that there isn’t any. So, why the challenge? Is it because you want to challenge the Christians to use reason and logic to justify their religious beliefs? That’s just pointless. We already know that when A is false in the following conditional, then B can be anything, and the whole claim would still be logically consistent: If A then B === for example === if a god exists then the god resurrected without any physical proof. You can’t let people assume A as true and then ask them for proof of the B, whatever that B is. It’s a waste of time. They have to prove A first. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/222 "2011-08-28T10:56:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’d like to see evidence that the small number of Christians living in Jerusalem believed in the resurrection. They were remarkably unsuccessful about spreading their cult there - those further away did much better. You’d think that a city full of people hearing about this miracle would be more receptive. If Matthew is to be believed, Jerusalem wasn’t just a city full of people hearing about a resurrection, it was a city full of people who actually saw the resurrected David, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, and other Jewish saints strolling through the streets when Jesus was crucified. As Thomas Paine said, if there were any truth to it, there would not have been an unconverted Jew left in Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/223 "2011-08-28T15:43:37Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > There isn’t any. > > No minimally educated person would not know that there isn’t any. So, why the challenge? I answered this question in the OP. I started the thread in response to an invitation from another poster who said he could prove it. You’re also wrong about educated people not appreciating the lack of proof. There are some very educated people who make their livings trying to argue that the resurrection is provable. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/224 "2011-08-28T17:04:56Z")
> [@Megas\_P](#): > > Well, not so much. First of all, Troy is real its been excavated. So is the Trojan war. There was a city, and it fell to war. That doesn’t make the Trojan War real. Finding Wilusa doesn’t suddenly validate discordant apples and giant wooden horses. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/225 "2011-08-28T18:23:49Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > If Matthew is to be believed, Jerusalem wasn’t just a city full of people hearing about a resurrection, it was a city full of people who actually saw the resurrected David, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, and other Jewish saints strolling through the streets when Jesus was crucified. > > As Thomas Paine said, if there were any truth to it, there would not have been an unconverted Jew left in Jerusalem. The interpretation I’ve always heard made it a much lower-key event than that- it was only a few who were raised & they were seen by a few, such as their loved ones. The JWs actually interpret it that the earthquake broke open tombs so that the bodies came out & were seen by people entering Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/226 "2011-08-28T21:25:23Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > The interpretation I’ve always heard made it a much lower-key event than that- it was only a few who were raised & they were seen by a few, such as their loved ones. The JWs actually interpret it that the earthquake broke open tombs so that the bodies came out & were seen by people entering Jerusalem. I realize that you are only reporting what the JWs say, but that interpretation is pure bullshit. The passage very clearly contradicts it. Matthew 27 (NIV): “52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.” You can read it in various other translations [here](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2027:52-53&version=NIV;KJV;YLT). They all make it clear that a) MANY people came to life and walked into the city, and b) they were witnessed by MANY people The only possible quibble is exactly which people were resurrected, but if God is going to perform a miracle like that, it wouldn’t make much sense to use the B list prophets. It is clearly the greatest miracle in the Bible since the Creation, and had to be widely known if true, and yet nobody bothered to report it but Matthew. Not even the other Gospel writers would touch it. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/227 "2011-08-28T21:46:37Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > They all make it clear that > a) MANY people came to life and walked into the city Untrue. Most of the translations state that the saints were merely _asleep_. So in fact they weren’t dead at all — I conjecture that they drank too much at a kind of _slumber party_ and thus overslept, requiring the infinite decibels of an omnimax alarm clock. This was in the days before one could set his smartphone to wake him up with smooth jazz or something, even when the power’s out. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/228 "2011-08-28T21:55:53Z")
“Sleep” was used in Greek as a euphemism for “die.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/229 "2011-08-28T21:59:35Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > If Matthew is to be believed, Jerusalem wasn’t just a city full of people hearing about a resurrection, it was a city full of people who actually saw the resurrected David, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, and other Jewish saints strolling through the streets when Jesus was crucified. > > As Thomas Paine said, if there were any truth to it, there would not have been an unconverted Jew left in Jerusalem. True, indeed, but it is hard to find many Christians willing to defend the truthfulness of the march of the holy zombies; so I usually don’t even bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/230 "2011-08-28T22:06:52Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > The interpretation I’ve always heard made it a much lower-key event than that- it was only a few who were raised & they were seen by a few, such as their loved ones. The JWs actually interpret it that the earthquake broke open tombs so that the bodies came out & were seen by people entering Jerusalem. Bodies? After 1,000 years? I didn’t realize that we knew how to mummify people. Not to mention that supposedly they arose, and went into the city to be seen by many. Good trick for a collection of bones. Anyhow, maybe the JWs interpret it that way because that is what the Bible says. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/231 "2011-08-28T22:24:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “Sleep” was used in Greek as a euphemism for “die.” Really, now. Interesting stuff. Is there anything written about whether St Peter wore a hat (or whether he voided in the woods)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/232 "2011-08-28T22:34:34Z")
There are suggestions in the Gospels that he may have dabbled in Catholicism. If I got whooshed, my bad. When it comes to literalist apologetics, I’ve learned not to assume any interpretation of the language, however off the wall, is proffered in anything but dead earnest (not that I thought you actually believed the above, but I thought you might have been offering up a fundy rebuttal you’d heard somewhere). ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/233 "2011-08-28T22:56:50Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Untrue. Most of the translations state that the saints were merely _asleep_. Yes, evidently free lodging in sealed tombs is one of the perqs of being a saint. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/234 "2011-08-29T05:59:32Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > He then tries to hand-wave away the little problem that the resurrection of a dead body would be a quite extraordinary event requiring extraordinary evidence, by noting that since we’ve already demonstrated that an all-powerful God exists, then miracles are not _a priori_ extraordinary. A God could poof up a miracle anytime he wants! In other words, “A wizard did it!” ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/235 "2011-08-29T06:31:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This idea that the further out in time and distance a story travels, the more accurate it is, just doesn’t sit right with me. I’m pretty sure that was **Voyager’s** point. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/236 "2011-08-29T07:48:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not to mention that supposedly they arose, and went into the city to be seen by many. Good trick for a collection of bones. I’m picturing a Biblical documentary with FX by Harryhausen 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/237 "2011-08-29T07:49:43Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > I realize that you are only reporting what the JWs say, but that interpretation is pure bullshit. The passage very clearly contradicts it. Matthew 27 (NIV): > > “52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.” > > You can read it in various other translations [here](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2027:52-53&version=NIV;KJV;YLT). > > They all make it clear that > a) MANY people came to life and walked into the city, and > b) they were witnessed by MANY people > > The only possible quibble is exactly which people were resurrected, but if God is going to perform a miracle like that, it wouldn’t make much sense to use the B list prophets. > > It is clearly the greatest miracle in the Bible since the Creation, and had to be widely known if true, and yet nobody bothered to report it but Matthew. Not even the other Gospel writers would touch it. OK, I checked the Interlinear Greek & technically, it just says the bodies “were raised”- “to life” was added by the NIV translators. I do happen to think that is the correct interpretation, not the JW one, but the distinction does exist in the Greek. As to “many” being raised & seen by “many”- yep, no denying that is in the text. But how many is “many”? _L_ How many saints & how many witnesses? Would a couple dozen saints count as ‘many’? Seventh-Day Adventist teachings have suggested they may be the “twenty-four elders” of Revelation 4-5. Would a few hundred witnesses count as ‘many’? Paul in I Corinthians 15 claims that 500 had seen the raised Jesus. Not saying that these definitions of ‘many’ are accurate but I think they’re worth considering. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/238 "2011-08-29T10:26:55Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > OK, I checked the Interlinear Greek & technically, it just says the bodies “were raised”- “to life” was added by the NIV translators. I do happen to think that is the correct interpretation, not the JW one, but the distinction does exist in the Greek. Just my opinion, but I would say that dead people walking into Jerusalem is just as remarkable as resurrected people walking into Jerusalem, so I don’t see what is gained by the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/239 "2011-08-29T11:21:24Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Just my opinion, but I would say that dead people walking into Jerusalem is just as remarkable as resurrected people walking into Jerusalem, so I don’t see what is gained by the distinction. _\_ “Ummm…are you\* sure\* he was the right Messiah?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680/240 "2011-08-29T11:38:18Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was **Voyager’s** point. I was agreeing with **Voyager**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-what-is-your-best-evidence-for-the-literal-historical-resurrection-of-jesus/593680.md?page=13)