# Christians: Why are scientists more likely to be non-believers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322 "2013-07-01T06:22:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/501 "2013-07-16T20:29:03Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Which we have already done. We spent post on post explaining it to you. > Upon which you went quiet for several months and now you want to pretend we never had that conversation? I remember both of my own threads regarding that. You folks did go on post after post, with several insults, but no viable explanation for that. If it was so easy you wouldve simply stated it in that post. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/502 "2013-07-16T20:29:42Z")
oopsy, double post ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/503 "2013-07-16T20:30:20Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Those aren’t historical accounts. There are thousands of myths about vampires, do you believe they are historical? I believe there are thousands of accounts of people drinking the blood of other people. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/504 "2013-07-16T20:33:14Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > The last I heard, the scientific method was to test a hypothesis with facts, and if the facts are lacking, to reject the hypothesis. (This procedure seems to be routinely bypassed in evolutionary thinking.) As far as the experiments by Redi and Pasteur are concerned, no facts are more obvious than those of direct observation (by the eyes). So, Nice try, Voyager–close but no cigar. > > Why are you bringing “(non-)magical” into this? Unless you consider the deliberate, organized effort by a supreme being to be “magical” and the spontaneous, no-thought effort by something to transmute itself into something else as “natural.”:dubious: I copied your answer from within the quote tags for you. You probably heard about the scientific method from the same place you heard that there is a lack of evidence of evolution. No, experiments are more than just collecting facts. The logic is more or less this (and I read of this experiment about 45 years ago, so the details aren’t going to be perfect.) Assume: maggots come from meat spontaneously. Test by: Putting meat under glass. (I assume there was a control with meat out in the open.) If the assumption is correct, maggots will appear from the meat both under the glass and out in the open. Results: Maggots on the meat out in the open, but none under the glass. Conclusion: the assumption is falsified, and we can conclude that maggots do not arise spontaneously from the meat. I can think of lots of variations, like sterilizing the meat to avoid eggs being present. Clearly before them everyone saw with their eyes that maggots appeared on meat. The difference is the experiment. There are plenty of observations we can’t make with just our eyes, but this isn’t one of them. As for magic, supernatural gods are the very definition of magic. We have lots of hypotheses about the origin of life that requires nothing supernatural. Speaking of magic, I can imagine someone saying that God placed the maggots in the meat, and that their lack in the glass proves nothing, since God may just decide not to place them there in this case for his own unknowable reasons. That’s exactly why religious thinking is worthless in science. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/505 "2013-07-16T20:33:42Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Just to start, how about sea-life fossils on the top of mountain ranges? Any fossils, for that matter, indicate rapid burial from floodlike conditions. No, it doesn’t. > [@Symbiosis does not develop over time](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/symbiosis-does-not-develop-over-time/660054/41): > > The vast majority of fossils were not deposited in floods. Most fossils are marine, and were deposited in still waters, not in turbulent waters as in floods. Some fossils are found in sandstones deposited by wind in deserts, and not by water at all. A fossil could be formed that way and then be discovered at a higher elevation following tectonic activity. > [@](#): > > a giant meter impact would not leave billions of perfectly preserved fossils. I’m pretty sure nobody has ever claimed that would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/506 "2013-07-16T20:34:06Z")
[Archaeological Evidence for the Biblical Flood](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/evidence-noahs-flood-ark-real-robert-ballard-archeologist-titanic_n_2273143.html). I know, not world-wide, but it was all the world the writers knew. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/507 "2013-07-16T20:34:40Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Just to start, how about sea-life fossils on the top of mountain ranges? Any fossils, for that matter, indicate rapid burial from floodlike conditions. The geologic column is not correct, but those layers do give evidence of some catastrophic event. Keep in mind, a giant meter impact would not leave billions of perfectly preserved fossils. Let me ask you something: When you participate in these threads and people point out the facts to you, with proper cites to boot, what do you do with all this new information-toss it in the round file because it doesn’t fit your belief system? Can you give us just one good reason why we should bother to explain how science works and what science shows us if the next time this pops up _you’re just going to pretend the previous conversations never took place at all and start all over again with already disproved cites_? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/508 "2013-07-16T20:34:50Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > So then the Sun is unnecessary for life on earth? > > Also, no comment on the Moon being a light? Or do you think it is one? > > Why would I do that? That’s not what scientists say, that’s only what uneducated creationists _think_ scientists say. > > My guess is that you think scientific knowledge is a hierarchy, with ‘law’ at the top, hypothesis at the bottom and ‘theory’ as something akin to an educated guess, right? > > You take this on faith, which is obvious. I’ve already shown a few inaccuracies. The sun was not necessary for the first day, given Gen 1:3. The moon reflects light, allowing us to see at night, correct? > **[Moonlight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight)** > > Moonlight consists of mostly sunlight (with little earthlight) reflected from the parts of the Moon's surface where the Sun's light strikes. > The ancient Greek philosopher Anaxagoras was aware that "the sun provides the moon with its brightness". > The intensity of moonlight varies greatly depending on the lunar phase, but even the full moon typically provides only about 0.05–0.1 lux illumination. When a full Moon around perigee (a "supermoon") is viewed around upper culmination from the tropics, ... Science is knowledge gained from observation. I dont believe that ‘hypotheses’ of evolution should be tax-funded in public schools, without allowing for an alternative viewpoint such as creation. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/509 "2013-07-16T20:36:02Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Fulfilled prophecy, which you will not find in any other text, with no inaccuracies. [Matthew 24:30-35](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2024:30-35&version=NASB) You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/510 "2013-07-16T20:36:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, it doesn’t. > > A fossil could be formed that way and then be discovered at a higher elevation following tectonic activity. > > I’m pretty sure nobody has ever claimed that would happen. However, petrified clams found in the closed position indicate they were buried alive. Tectonic plate movement (1/4 inch per year) would not cause that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/511 "2013-07-16T20:38:31Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > How about the failures of Miller and Urey to produce any chiral amino acids? We are still waiting for this, let alone nucleic acids coming from scratch. That experiment was interesting in that it showed some amino acids can be formed from simpler materials somewhat spontaneously. It certainly isn’t a model of how life actually started, not even back when it was done. > [@](#): > > If you dont think the Bible is anything special (from your next post), I invite you to look for any fulfilled prophecies in any other text. Sure - _Macbeth_. It is easy to write of fulfilled prophecies after the fact. We have the big unfulfilled one about Jesus returning. We have a fulfilled misreading of a prophecy of the virgin birth. And we have the fact that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophecies unless you twist them out of recognition. The messiah was supposed to become king. Jesus fought the law, and the law won. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/512 "2013-07-16T20:39:19Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > [Archaeological Evidence for the Biblical Flood](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/evidence-noahs-flood-ark-real-robert-ballard-archeologist-titanic_n_2273143.html). Well that certainly was a flood. A flood of stupid, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/513 "2013-07-16T20:40:35Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > However, petrified clams found in the closed position indicate they were buried alive. Tectonic plate movement (1/4 inch per year) would not cause that. They could have been burried alive and _then_ the land rose, you know… ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/514 "2013-07-16T20:40:55Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > [Matthew 24:30-35](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2024:30-35&version=NASB) > You are wrong. MT 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: endtimes prophecy ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/515 "2013-07-16T20:41:13Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > How about this: > > ‘Although the laws of motion and universal gravitation became Newton’s best-known discoveries, he warned against using them to view the Universe as a mere machine, as if akin to a great clock. He said, “Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.”[97]’ > > -Isaac Newton As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve read a fascinating book containing bits of original writings by scientists from Copernicus to 1800. What is telling is that the earlier scientists often included language just like the above. As science progressed, it disappeared. as god became less and less necessary. Newton is great because of what he discovered, not because of who he was (which was a mess.) do you love his alchemy also? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/516 "2013-07-16T20:41:40Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > However, petrified clams found in the closed position indicate they were buried alive. Tectonic plate movement (1/4 inch per year) would not cause that. This seems to be an article of faith on Creationist websites and isn’t discussed at all anywhere else. Do you have a credible cite for any of the things you just said here? ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/517 "2013-07-16T20:41:56Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > They could have been burried alive and _then_ the land rose, you know… Just like Genesis 8 states. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/518 "2013-07-16T20:42:44Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > Just to start, how about sea-life fossils on the top of mountain ranges? Remember that page you quoted earlier? [Here you go.](http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC364.html) > [@](#): > > Any fossils, for that matter, indicate rapid burial from floodlike conditions. [And again.](http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/sep02.html#catastrophic) > [@](#): > > The geologic column is not correct, but those layers do give evidence of some catastrophic event. [And again.](http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD102.html) > [@](#): > > Keep in mind, a giant meter impact would not leave billions of perfectly preserved fossils. Huh? Do you think the meteor impacted everywhere? How would a meteor hitting the earth prevent fossils? ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/519 "2013-07-16T20:43:45Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > endtimes prophecy Which hasn’t been shown to be correct or incorrect… ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322/520 "2013-07-16T20:44:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This seems to be an article of faith on Creationist websites and isn’t discussed at all anywhere else. Do you have a credible cite for any of the things you just said here? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DcoFbtMtp2A/hqdefault.jpg "12. Petrified Clams Mt. Everest Closed Position . (DVD 6, 54:11-56:08)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcoFbtMtp2A) -Please see the references Hovind gives, thanks. I will try to get more later if you dont mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christians-why-are-scientists-more-likely-to-be-non-believers/662322.md?page=27)