# Christmas a National Holiday? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902 "2019-12-15T19:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/41 "2019-12-17T14:44:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > People of all religions celebrate Christmas. Anecdotally: to my personal experience, it is completely unremarkable for local Jewish folks to put up a Christmas tree in their homes and businesses. Sample size is not huge – three homes, and maybe eight or nine businesses. I can imagine that this is less common in areas where Jewish cultural roots run deeper. Out of curiosity … would it be surprising for a Reform Jewish family living in, say, New York City to have a Christmas tree in their home? My assumption is that this would not be done in an Orthodox home. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/42 "2019-12-17T14:47:17Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Many supermarkets are closed on Christmas, but by no means all. Around here, major grocery stores are typically open until early afternoon – 2 p.m. or thereabouts. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/43 "2019-12-17T14:51:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > As others point out, in the religion which considers Easter Sunday significant, it is already a day off because it is … Sunday! (You could argue that the Resurrection is celebrated 52 times a year!) **Many businesses gave a half-day off on the Friday preceding Easter**. I always thought it was because of the heavy Catholic influence in New Orleans … but it is common (though not invariable) for private businesses in this area to be closed on Good Friday. My memory is that it is typically a half-day for many municipal offices, parish & city government offices, etc. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/44 "2019-12-17T14:52:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > SuntanLotion is offline > Guest > > Originally Posted by kanicbird > _Just to add Thanksgiving has been established nationally to give thanks to our Heavenly Father. So Christmas is not the only national holiday directly that has to do with God. > \* > SuntanLotion "i_t never started as having to do with God. It was a saturnalia, sun didn’t die holiday and the church co-opted it. imho." > \_\_\* > > I believe SuntanLotion is replying to the second sentence, not the first. Online now. I had read that somewhere (I read a lot so not sure Where) that Christmas was originally a pagan celebration and the church decided to make it about Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Bayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bayaker/32/3454_2.png) [@Bayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/45 "2019-12-17T15:08:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I always thought it was because of the heavy Catholic influence in New Orleans … but it is common (though not invariable) for private businesses in this area to be closed on Good Friday. My memory is that it is typically a half-day for many municipal offices, parish & city government offices, etc. It’s not just LA. I have worked for about ten companies in my life, in MD and TX, and have always had Good Friday as a paid holiday. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/46 "2019-12-17T15:09:13Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Anecdotally: to my personal experience, it is completely unremarkable for local Jewish folks to put up a Christmas tree in their homes and businesses. Sample size is not huge – three homes, and maybe eight or nine businesses. > > I can imagine that this is less common in areas where Jewish cultural roots run deeper. Out of curiosity … would it be surprising for a Reform Jewish family living in, say, New York City to have a Christmas tree in their home? My assumption is that this would not be done in an Orthodox home. Growing up we had a xmas tree, and my mom lit her menorah candles. My mom was Jewish, but nonobservant and my dad was christian but nonobservant. As a family we believed in Santa Claus but not Jesus. We lived in a neighborhood that was 98% Jewish. Nobody I knew had an xmas tree, but none of my friends were freaked out by mine. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/47 "2019-12-17T17:42:53Z")
Some of the credit probably belongs to Charles Dickens. If a hugely popular book that redefines how everyone thinks of Christmas comes out and says that only greedy evil employers would make their employees work on Christmas, then the federal government might take notice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/48 "2019-12-17T18:15:56Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > … Christianity just kind of did the same; Christ was not actually born at Christmas time, for example, it is just celebrated then. . Probably not, I concur. They backfigured from when they thought he was crucified (and that date is likely correct) or the Annunciation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/49 "2019-12-17T18:17:27Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Online now. I had read that somewhere (I read a lot so not sure Where) that Christmas was originally a pagan celebration and the church decided to make it about Jesus. Yes, it’s a common UL, but it’s false. Nothing whatsoever to do with saturnalia. _Maybe_ some sort of competition with the Mithra cult, but I dont think so. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/50 "2019-12-17T18:19:54Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Anecdotally: to my personal experience, it is completely unremarkable for local Jewish folks to put up a Christmas tree in their homes and businesses. Sample size is not huge – three homes, and maybe eight or nine businesses. > > I can imagine that this is less common in areas where Jewish cultural roots run deeper. Out of curiosity … would it be surprising for a Reform Jewish family living in, say, New York City to have a Christmas tree in their home? My assumption is that this would not be done in an Orthodox home. My brother (raised Reform Jewish in the northeast) moved to Alabama where his wife (raised ultra Reform Jewish in Alabama) is from. They have a tree. They take pictures with Santa. The rest of our family is astonished but accepting. I don’t know any Reform Jews raised here in the northeast that have a Christmas tree in their house unless the family is a mixed marriage, like mine. It never would occur to me or my sister, and even now I feel a little odd seeing Santas scattered about the house. None of my other relatives have a tree, and we are varying degrees of observant. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/51 "2019-12-17T18:34:32Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We lived in a neighborhood that was 98% Jewish. Nobody I knew had an xmas tree, but none of my friends were freaked out by mine. Only tangentially related but, try finding an open restaurant or even supermarket in Tel Aviv on Yom Kippur. It IS a national holiday but not 98% Jewish (though Wiki says the city is over 90% Jewish), but the streets are dead rivalling Christmas and Thanksgiving (in America) or Rio de Janeiro during an important World Cup match. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/52 "2019-12-17T18:51:21Z")
It’s an American governmental tradition. In the spirit of old-time Christmas in America: In the fall of 1784, Congress met in Trenton at the French Arms Tavern. They pretended to be working on the nation’s business while getting fairly drunk. Then Congress adjourned for Christmas on December 24 and this time they proceeded to get _really_ drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/53 "2019-12-17T20:36:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > People of all religions celebrate Christmas. No we don’t. Not all of us, anyway. I know it’s literally true that \*some \*people of all religions indulge in the cultural trappings of Christmas, but saying “People of all religions celebrate Christmas” makes it sound like “everyone celebrates Christmas.” It ain’t true. > [@bordelond](#): > > Anecdotally: to my personal experience, it is completely unremarkable for local Jewish folks to put up a Christmas tree in their homes and businesses. Sample size is not huge – three homes, and maybe eight or nine businesses. > > I can imagine that this is less common in areas where Jewish cultural roots run deeper. Out of curiosity … would it be surprising for a Reform Jewish family living in, say, New York City to have a Christmas tree in their home? My assumption is that this would not be done in an Orthodox home. I’m a non-observant Reform Jew in a community that’s 98% Christian, and I will never never never never have a tree in my home. It’s not about religion – it’s about reminding myself and others that Christian religion and symbology are not a default. Don’t even get me started on the music. Bah, humbug. Bring on January already. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/54 "2019-12-17T20:39:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > People of all religions celebrate Christmas. > [@Akaj](#): > > No we don’t. Not all of us, anyway. I’ll just note that he didn’t say “_all_ people of all religions celebrate Christmas.” It is true that people of all religions (and non-religion) celebrate Christmas, for certain values of “celebrate” and “Christmas.” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/55 "2019-12-17T20:49:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’ll just note that he didn’t say “_all_ people of all religions celebrate Christmas.” It is true that people of all religions (and non-religion) celebrate Christmas, for certain values of “celebrate” and “Christmas.” Which is why I said this right afterwards: > [@Akaj](#): > > I know it’s literally true that \*some \*people of all religions indulge in the cultural trappings of Christmas … But I’m just a grinch who’s had it up to here with Christmas crap everywhere, and still another week to go. Feel free to ignore my ranting. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/56 "2019-12-17T22:40:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’ll just note that he didn’t say “_all_ people of all religions celebrate Christmas.” It is true that people of all religions (and non-religion) celebrate Christmas, for certain values of “celebrate” and “Christmas.” Well if we’re going to get all semantically pedantic, I’m confident that there is at least one religion out there with no adherents which celebrate christmas. Don’t ask me which one, though I gather that there are still some tribes out there that only barely have heard of western civilization, and they probably have _some_ religion… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/57 "2019-12-17T23:10:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Well if we’re going to get all semantically pedantic, I’m confident that there is at least one religion out there with no adherents which celebrate christmas. Don’t ask me which one, though I gather that there are still some tribes out there that only barely have heard of western civilization, and they probably have _some_ religion… But my statement isn’t semantic pedantry. Your claim is theoretical and you can’t positively identify any of those theoretical people. Whereas, I have met actual people of all religions commonly present in the United States as well as atheists who participate in some degree of the Christmas-related wintertime festivities, to wit, decorating trees, lights, gift-giving, card-giving, greetings-exchanging, etc. It is treated as a set of secular practices by a lot of different kind of people, not just those with Christian backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/58 "2019-12-17T23:21:51Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > No we don’t. Not all of us, anyway. > > I know it’s literally true that \*some \*people of all religions indulge in the cultural trappings of Christmas, but saying “People of all religions celebrate Christmas” makes it sound like “everyone celebrates Christmas.” It ain’t true. > > I’m a non-observant Reform Jew in a community that’s 98% Christian, and I will never never never never have a tree in my home. It’s not about religion – it’s about reminding myself and others that Christian religion and symbology are not a default. Don’t even get me started on the music. > > . No, “People of all religions celebrate Christmas” means exactly what it says, in simple English. Now, “All people, no matter their religion, celebrate Christmas” would mean what you are saying. Sure, and not everyone in the USA celebrates Independence day, or Thanksgiving or pretty much any holiday. There are always a few hold outs . Hell some people refuse to acknowledge DayLight Savings Time. Some people talk about the gold fringe on the flag and refuse to acknowledge the law even. But there are Jewish people that celebrate Christmas, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. In the USA it’s primarily a secular Holiday. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/59 "2019-12-17T23:30:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > But my statement isn’t semantic pedantry. We are _deep_ in the realm of semantic pedantry. (I know it well.) > [@Acsenray](#): > > Your claim is theoretical and you can’t positively identify any of those theoretical people. …only because I’m too lazy and don’t care to bother. In any case, I will happily agree that Christmas is a completely secular holiday celebrated by many people and that any of those people who somehow think that it’s a religious holiday are simply confused. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902/60 "2019-12-17T23:46:56Z")
Well, that’s further than I would go. My position is only that there is a secular Christmas celebrated in the United States. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a non-secular Christmas. They co-exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-a-national-holiday/844902.md?page=4)