# Christmas Elves vs Fantasy Elves **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393 "2018-12-19T23:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/1 "2018-12-19T23:03:27Z")
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw7dexoX4pQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw7dexoX4pQ) Pretty funny. I watched this after watching a “What would happen if Sauron recovered his ring” video, so this rang with me. College Humor should have pressed that harder. Mentioning how Santa sounds slightly similar to Sauron or Saruman. How once a year he’s drawn across the world by eight fell beasts to collect tribute and leave ‘gifts’. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/2 "2018-12-19T23:18:34Z")
I gots to say, when I read _The Hobbit_ at age 12, I had a _very_ inaccurate picture in my mind of the elves of Mirkwood. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/3 "2018-12-19T23:33:42Z")
There is a wide variety of elf depictions in fantasy–some Discworld elves should have stormed in and killed and ate the lot of 'em (in that order, if they were feeling merciful.) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/4 "2018-12-20T05:31:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I gots to say, when I read _The Hobbit_ at age 12, I had a _very_ inaccurate picture in my mind of the elves of Mirkwood. When I looked through Wayne G. Hammond’s book _J.R.R. Tolkein: Artist and Illustrator_, I noticed that Tolkein himself drew several pictures of Middle-Earth Elves wearing pointed caps with pompoms. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/5 "2018-12-20T05:40:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I gots to say, when I read _The Hobbit_ at age 12, I had a _very_ inaccurate picture in my mind of the elves of Mirkwood. I read _The Hobbit_ (and _The Lord of the Rings_) at about that same age, but it was just after the Rankin-Bass animated film of _The Hobbit_ had come out, so that definitely influenced my perceptions of what the various races looked like. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/6 "2018-12-20T10:27:03Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw7dexoX4pQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw7dexoX4pQ) > > Pretty funny. I watched this after watching a “What would happen if Sauron recovered his ring” video, so this rang with me. > > College Humor should have pressed that harder. Mentioning how Santa sounds slightly similar to Sauron or Saruman. How once a year he’s drawn across the world by eight fell beasts to collect tribute and leave ‘gifts’. I gathered that references to Tolkien baddies were deliberately eschewed. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/7 "2018-12-20T11:34:48Z")
And, of course, I have to be nerdy about the lore and imagine how two small elves from Santa could have a these tall wood elves. Maybe they have magic that makes them taller? Or maybe, given the racism comments, he was adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/8 "2018-12-20T16:29:50Z")
See if you can find a copy somewhere of Tolkien’s _Father Christmas Letters_. According to the Professor, Santa’s elves _are_ the tall, badassed, better-than-you-at-everything sort. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/9 "2018-12-22T03:24:45Z")
It’s increasingly puzzled me, as the years go on, why Santa’s helpers—being short, bearded fellows who spend all their time building things—are called “Elves.” ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/10 "2018-12-22T04:14:52Z")
Relevant[TV Tropes link](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurElvesAreBetter). ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-elves-vs-fantasy-elves/826393/11 "2018-12-25T10:06:27Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > It’s increasingly puzzled me, as the years go on, why Santa’s helpers—being short, bearded fellows who spend all their time building things—are called “Elves.” In many languages / folklores the Santa’s helpers and other short, bearded magic folk, actually _are_ distinct, with a different name, from the elves. See tomten, tonttu, brownie, heinzelmännchen etc.