# Christopher Columbus coming to America is the most significant thing to happen in our human species **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066 "2023-06-24T23:10:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/161 "2023-11-27T21:03:53Z")
Ah. I see and that does make sense. They are much smaller now. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/162 "2023-11-27T21:11:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, some of the Americas had been exploited on a pretty large and civilized level, including parts of North America. Of course by the time the Brits were colonizing America, plagues had killed off up to 90% of the resident people, and that maybe a hundred years prior, so to them it looked unexploited and “primitive”. The natives north of Mexico didn’t have draft animals and afaik none of their pictographic systems came up to the level of a fully written language. I haven’t heard any of them had iron other than worked meteoric iron. It’s not a denigration of their cultures to observe that they were technologically less advanced than Euro-Asians, or that far less of their land had been converted into crop or pasture land. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/163 "2023-11-27T21:19:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Except, is fire an invention of “our human species”? Our predecessor species _H. erectus_ made use of fire. Of course, maybe it’s a matter of when to split that species from ours. What hooked me on the SDMB was the question “Was math invented by humans” It’s old, I’m not going to look for it. But to me, intriguing. IMHO, all math always existed. Just like fire. However, humans learned how to tame it and use it. In math’s case we had to invent a language. Fire needed tools. And I’m sure a number of unfortunate experiences. Anyway, we are bouncing around with ‘invention’ and ‘dumb luck’. And as far as Cristopher Columbus, ‘sales’ ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/164 "2023-11-27T21:43:56Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > As pointed out already, Europeans would have been made (more) aware of the American continents by someone else if Columbus’s voyage hadn’t taken place Eventually, probably, but how long would it have taken before someone making just the right mistakes would come along and strike out for lands to the west? Explorers until then safely hugged the known coastlines. Those who believed that the Earth was round and had an accurate idea of its size and the extent of Asia knew that there was no way an expedition could survive at sea long enough to reach land there. It was Columbus’s mistaken conviction that the Earth’s circumference was that much smaller that made him confident he could reach land to the west within the limits of his day’s nautical technology. Columbus, whatever he was, opened the door. It was he who caused Europeans to know with certainty that they could reach land to the west with the ships they had available. It might have been centuries before someone else willing to try it would have some along. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/165 "2023-11-27T21:49:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@hajario](#): > > > > Wait. You used a corporation that designs and installs lighting rods as a cite that lightning rods are necessary? > > No, that you wouldnt know if a house had one. Except those of us who own homes generally do know if we have lightening rods. When i was a kid no one had lightening rods. The next door neighbor’s oak tree was hit by lightening. It had a giant scar down its side from the damage. My house doesn’t. And we’ve had lightening damage. Not a direct hit to the house, but to a nearby street pole. We lost a phone and a modem and a laptop that was plugged into that modem. Our next door neighbor was closer to the hit, and they had a TV implode (the old tube type) and lost their burglar alarm system, which failed in a “make lots of noise” way. The neighbors to the other side of that house also had some damage, but i forget the details. I kinda maybe have a lightening rod now, because i have a roof antenna (for TV) that’s grounded. But i still expect that nearby trees and poles are more likely to be hit. I’m sure lightening rods are useful. But it’s an awfully minor gadget that helps a little here and there. It’s less important to most large towers (the sort that are routinely hit by lightening) than the elevators and hvac and even the style of metal-frame construction that makes most sky scrapers possible. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/166 "2023-11-27T22:32:28Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Eventually, probably, but how long would it have taken before someone making just the right mistakes would come along and strike out for lands to the west? Considering that it had already happened, probably not long before someone moved further south, or aimed for further south than the Norse settlements. Or aimed for that known area and missed. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/167 "2023-11-27T23:25:49Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > What hooked me on the SDMB was the question “Was math invented by humans” It’s old, I’m not going to look for it. But to me, intriguing. > [@Mathematics: Invented or Discovered?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-invented-or-discovered/63084): > > Several days ago, I got into a debate with some friends about whether we invented mathematics or discovered it. Most of them seem to have gravitated towards the “discovered” side, while I am left alone with only a few allies to defend the “invented” side. I’ve used this board for referencing other subjects we’ve argued about, but I cannot turn up any related threads by searching for keywords like “math,” “discovered,” and “invented.” So I present this question: Was mathematics invented or discov… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/168 "2023-11-27T23:32:52Z")
This issue was on the front page of Wikipedia just a few days ago: > **[Quine–Putnam indispensability argument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine%E2%80%93Putnam_indispensability_argument)** > > The Quine–Putnam indispensability argument\[a\] is an argument in the philosophy of mathematics for the existence of abstract mathematical objects such as numbers and sets, a position known as mathematical platonism. It was named after the philosophers Willard Quine and Hilary Putnam, and is one of the most important arguments in the philosophy of mathematics. > Although elements of the indispensability argument may have originated with thinkers such as Gottlob Frege and Kurt Gödel, Quine's deve... I can’t follow the arguments myself, but I have a philosopher relative for whom this is meat and drink. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/169 "2023-11-27T23:44:35Z")
Thanks Lucas… When I can’t sleep, I often think about how I would teach someone how to play chess. I’ve don it a few times in real life. But, it of course goes much, much deeper that the movement of pieces. As a (perhaps poor) analogy, we will never know the best move in chess for the entire game. It’s very fluid. A ‘bad’ move could be the winning one. I’ve had this discussion with my wife. There is no luck in chess. IMHO, mathematics always existed. We just unlocked it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/170 "2023-11-27T23:45:03Z")
But it had been centuries since it had happened before. And how well-known were the Norse settlements of that era even to Scandinavians of the time, never mind the more expansive European cultures? Did the 15th-century fully Christianized Norwegians, Swedes and Danes have any real respect for their Viking past? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/171 "2023-11-27T23:47:15Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > But it had been centuries since it had happened before. And how well-known were the Norse settlements of that era even to Scandinavians of the time If they came back, many I would think would already be long gone. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/172 "2023-11-28T00:21:32Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Except those of us who own homes generally do know if we have lightening rods. I avoid them, since I’d rather my home not float away. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/173 "2023-11-28T00:23:18Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Eventually, probably, but how long would it have taken before someone making just the right mistakes would come along and strike out for lands to the west? That there was a landmass to the west was known, if not known widely. Columbus didn’t blindly happen upon the Americas, he had heard descriptions, combined it with inaccurate figures for the size of the earth, and concluded that the land mass to the west was the eastern coastline of China. It would not have required someone to “make just the right mistakes”. Just to decide we should explore those land masses off to the west. Quite inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/174 "2023-11-28T00:30:34Z")
And it wouldn’t have been beyond the possible for the approach to have come from the north, in the Viking coastal approaches. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/175 "2023-11-28T00:55:21Z")
I think we can agree that contact between the old- and new-worlds was inevitable with the advances in sailing ship design and technology - it was only a matter of time and of who would be the first, and that contact itself most certainly set in motion a series of events that would have likely also occurred anyway. Mr Columbus just happened to be that guy. However, I don’t want to lessen what that contact and subsequent events did to the path of human history. It was a sad ending to the civilizations of the Americas, but also resulted in unique crops from the Americas (South America in particular) spreading around the world, which, beyond being tasty, also supplied additional nourishment options to a growing world population - specifically, those living in higher latitudes. I don’t know if the industrial age would have been different or later without corn (maize) and potatoes, for example. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/176 "2023-11-28T03:01:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > When i was a kid no one had lightening rods. There’s no “e” in lightning. 🙂 Once is a typo, several times is bad spell check and is also making my teeth itch. Agree 100% with your point that lightning rods are pretty much unnecessary for ordinary houses in ordinary cities and suburbias. You (well I) do see them on tall buildings and on isolated structures in lightning country. But on a row of tract houses? Not only no, but hell no. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/177 "2023-11-28T03:07:32Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I think we can agree that contact between the old- and new-worlds was inevitable with the advances in sailing ship design and technology - it was only a matter of time and of who would be the first, and that contact itself most certainly set in motion a series of events that would have likely also occurred anyway. Mr Columbus just happened to be that guy. > > However, I don’t want to lessen what that contact and subsequent events did to the path of human history. It was a sad ending to the civilizations of the Americas, I agree there. Sad end? Well, the sadistic human sacrifice civilizations were not much of a loss. The Moundbuilders or the Mississippian culture was in decline hundreds of years before DeSoto arrived. Same with the Hohokam and the The Ancestral Puebloans. So, pretty much there were no “civilizations” (in the sense of cities) left in what we now call America., altho certainly the **Five Nations** of the Iroquois Confederacy (and others- Wichita, etc) were quote organized and civilized- except without the “city” part. > [@snowthx](#): > > but also resulted in unique crops from the Americas (South America in particular) spreading around the world, which, beyond being tasty, also supplied additional nourishment options to a growing world population - The Potato was a world changer in Europe. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Agree 100% with your point that lightning rods are pretty much unnecessary for ordinary houses in ordinary cities and suburbias. As i said- > [@DrDeth](#): > > It is true, in many areas of the USA, they are not that common on homes- because there are plenty of trees higher than the houses, and that area may not be prone to lighting storms. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > There’s no “e” in lightning. 🙂 > Once is a typo, several times is bad spell check and is also making my teeth itch. I understood that word perfectly, no matter how it was spelled. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/178 "2023-11-28T03:07:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > There’s no “e” in lightning. 🙂 > Once is a typo, several times is bad spell check and is also making my teeth itch. Sorry. Spelling has never been my long suit. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/179 "2023-11-28T03:53:12Z")
Autocorrect has had the effect of lightening the load in most cases but it has its drawbacks. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066/180 "2023-11-28T05:40:29Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > afaik none of their pictographic systems came up to the level of a fully written language No, the Mayan writing system (and possibly some related systems) was a fully written language - it had both logographic _and_ syllabic symbols. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-coming-to-america-is-the-most-significant-thing-to-happen-in-our-human-species/986066.md?page=10)