# Christopher Columbus really was scum wasn't he? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271 "2014-10-14T04:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/21 "2014-10-14T14:39:06Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > But just the same, I’m not about to sell everything that I own, donate it to American Indians, and move back to Europe. So I guess I’m not so considerate, after all. On the other hand, is changing the name of the holiday from Columbus Day to Indigenous People’s Day _that_ big of a sacrifice? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/22 "2014-10-14T15:04:27Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well, sorta but I maintain that competent administrators didn’t face [rebellions and mutinies](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2274/where-does-that-1492-ocean-blue-thing-about-columbus-come-from). The officers of the SS Columbia Eagle send their regards. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/23 "2014-10-14T15:30:03Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > If Columbus did not discover the Americas someone else would have in 50-60 years I am sure. > > Everything that followed would basically be the same. Just different names and dates. People discovered the Americas mellenia ago. They didn’t do the things he did. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/24 "2014-10-14T15:33:14Z")
> [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](#): > > Never been able to figure out why he got all the credit He came back and got the ball rolling on European exploration and conquest of the western hemisphere. Which is more than most people have done. Even among other “firsts” to hit western soil, no one else had the same effect on world history for it. Settling up a little Viking shanty town and doing nothing else doesn’t win you any statues. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/25 "2014-10-14T15:35:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Read the quote: > > _There are now many merchants who go seeking for girls. Nine or ten are now for sale; for women of all ages, there is a good price to be had._ > > How many girls are for sale? > > What are their ages? It’s possible to deduce what the faulty excerpt probably implied. In lieu of a spoiler box, I won’t quote from [the answer](http://books.google.co.th/books?id=jZmOBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA193&lpg=PA193#v=onepage&q=traffickers%20priciest&f=false). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/26 "2014-10-14T15:43:24Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > People discovered the Americas mellenia ago. They didn’t do the things he did. Some of them actually did _[worse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice#Pre-Columbian_Americas)_ things. People have been “discovering” new lands for thousands of years and taking them over from the natives. Columbus wasn’t much different. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/27 "2014-10-14T15:45:45Z")
> [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](#): > > Never been able to figure out why he got all the credit- wasn’t the first, wasn’t where he thought he was, and went home without finding any gold. He also wasn’t Spanish, or even really Italian. Apparently, he could talk fast 😉 and spin a good yarn. I come not to defend Columbus’ moral character nor his intelligence, but he was the first. The first to make real contact between the Old World and New World. The Vikings who were in the northeast didn’t ever go back and say, “hey there be land and shit here!” I guess they _must have_ been aware of natives, but don’t seem to have interacted with them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/28 "2014-10-14T15:50:53Z")
The Aztecs were worse than the Europeans, but the Inca were much better. Though I recently read that the Inca were brutally homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/29 "2014-10-14T15:54:56Z")
Yesterday, several people on Facebook shared The Oatmeal’s take: [Christopher Columbus was awful (but this other guy was not)](http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/30 "2014-10-14T15:58:42Z")
There’s a lot of undue criticism here. First of all he was the first European to reach Ohio, that’s gotta be worth something. It wasn’t his fault North America was in the way of the trade route to Asia, how many of you would have known it was here? As for mistreating the crew, I’ll bet that kid got away with plenty of other things before he finally got his hand nailed to the deck, he’s lucky it wasn’t his dick. Just remember, if no one ever discovered America most of us would still be speaking English today. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/31 "2014-10-14T16:12:59Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I guess they _must have_ been aware of natives, but don’t seem to have interacted with them at all. The Viking texts mention encounters with natives they called “skraelings,” certainly in context of conflict with them, and there’s believed to be evidence of trade as well. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/32 "2014-10-14T16:36:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s a lot of undue criticism here. First of all he was the first European to reach Ohio, that’s gotta be worth something. And imagine his surprise when he got there and found a city with the same name as him! ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/33 "2014-10-14T16:44:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In lieu of a spoiler box, I won’t quote from [the answer](http://books.google.co.th/books?id=jZmOBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA193&lpg=PA193#v=onepage&q=traffickers%20priciest&f=false). I thought that quote looked wrong. The title is correct, they screwed up the text. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/34 "2014-10-14T16:47:16Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And imagine his surprise when he got there and found a city with the same name as him! the Capital, no less! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/35 "2014-10-14T17:18:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > It’s possible to deduce what the faulty excerpt probably implied. > > In lieu of a spoiler box, I won’t quote from [the answer](http://books.google.co.th/books?id=jZmOBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA193&lpg=PA193#v=onepage&q=traffickers%20priciest&f=false). That’s certainly fair. I was responding to the quote as it appeared here and answering **Leaper** ’s question. A different quote (and, it now seems clear, a _correct_ quote) obviously produces a different answer. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/36 "2014-10-14T17:24:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s certainly fair. I was responding to the quote as it appeared here and answering **Leaper** ’s question. > > A different quote (and, it now seems clear, a _correct_ quote) obviously produces a different answer. Cross-post coincidence! I mentioned this 3 minutes before you, though in a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/37 "2014-10-14T17:26:12Z")
> [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](#): > > Never been able to figure out why he got all the credit- wasn’t the first, wasn’t where he thought he was, and went home without finding any gold. He also wasn’t Spanish, or even really Italian. Apparently, he could talk fast 😉 and spin a good yarn. According to my Orgo teacher, because he published it. If it ain’t documented, it ain’t done. And what’s being Spanish got to do with it? 😕 There are a few theories that claim he was from different parts of Spain, but they’re fringe at best; most have one single proponent. I could propose that Sigmund Freud was from Andorra but that don’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/38 "2014-10-14T17:33:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The officers of the SS Columbia Eagle send their regards. Oh sure, mutinies can occur with competent commanders. I’m saying though that if you face mutinies on your ship and rebellions in your colony that perhaps your administrative skills are sub-par. Furthermore, it seems that Columbus mis-estimated the size of the world and only collided with the Caribbean islands through dumb luck. Why this genocidal yo-yo deserves a holiday is unclear to me. Incidentally, only 15% of private businesses give the day off during Columbus day and [fewer than half the states celebrate it](http://www.vox.com/2014/10/12/6962857/why-canceling-school-for-columbus-day-is-a-terrible-idea). Vox thinks we could usefully phase out a Columbus day holiday in favor of election day. I advocate trials. > [@Bricker](#): > > That’s certainly fair. I was responding to the quote as it appeared here and answering **Leaper** ’s question. > > A different quote (and, it now seems clear, a _correct_ quote) obviously produces a different answer. Possibly. But recall that Columbus wasn’t particularly fluent in Spanish. So the original Vox quote may have been correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/39 "2014-10-14T17:36:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yesterday, several people on Facebook shared The Oatmeal’s take: [Christopher Columbus was awful (but this other guy was not)](http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day). Eh, Columbus may have been the “father” of the trans-Atlantic slave trade but the New World was bound to be opened to Europe soon enough. Why? Because there was already a thriving slave trade leaving Portugal, heading to Africa and back up. And, the best route wasn’t directly down the coast but to swing wide in the Atlantic (winds and currents) around Africa’s northwest coast and come back in. In retrospect, this route took the slave traders surprisingly close to Brazil’s coast (in a relative sense). It’s figured that, if it wasn’t Columbus, some Portuguese trader was going to find Brazil soon enough be it via storm or poor navigation. Point being that Columbus didn’t start anything that wasn’t already in full swing in Europe. He was the first to take slaves from the New World but the Atlantic was already a big ole slave highway at that time. The remark that Columbus wanted “cheddar” is a silly indictment – of course he wanted money. Everyone wanted money. The conquest of the New World was 100% based on getting rich be it via slaves, cotton, tobacco, gold or beaver pelts. Hell, he was only looking for a route to Asia because it would have brought in more wealth than taking the presumed long way around Africa or across Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271/40 "2014-10-14T17:38:22Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Possibly. But recall that Columbus wasn’t particularly fluent in Spanish. So the original Vox quote may have been correct. Maybe. I really just was trying to helpfully parse the original version of the quote; I haven’t done any research and don’t have any specialized knowledge to make my opinion about which version is accurate particularly relevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christopher-columbus-really-was-scum-wasnt-he/701271.md?page=3)