# Christ's Jewishness - does it affect your feelings about Jewish people? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880 "2016-03-04T00:18:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/21 "2016-03-06T00:38:45Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Christian who married a Jew here; don’t know that the J-man’s Jewishness had anything to do with it. With your getting married? 😛 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/22 "2016-03-06T00:48:25Z")
As far as catholic doctrine is concerned (that I know), catholics don’t proselytize to jews. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/23 "2016-03-06T01:38:37Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > With your getting married? 😛 🆒 Well, it did probably require divine intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/24 "2016-03-06T03:36:25Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > No. The defining issue is that they rejected Christ and crucified him. Technically, he was crucified by the Romans. I’m not wrong about that, am I? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/25 "2016-03-06T04:04:01Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Technically, he was crucified by the Romans. I’m not wrong about that, am I? **the\_diego** said: > [@](#): > > No. The defining issue is that they rejected Christ and crucified him. Isn’t it more like: “The defining issue is that (because) they rejected Christ (the Romans) crucified him.”? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/26 "2016-03-06T19:11:25Z")
Well, Jewish People - just because Jesus is a relative doesn’t mean you get to sell me inferior corned beef at the deli, or run out of the “nice whitefish”. Your connections only take you so far. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/27 "2016-03-06T19:29:00Z")
Always leave your hat on when you shop at the deli or the appetizing store. You get the best cuts that way. Helps if you have a beard, too. – Uke Ike, the Goy with the hat and beard ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/28 "2016-03-06T21:17:46Z")
OK, first, there is the basic respect that everyone deserves until they disqualify themselves. But as to the Jewish people in particular, as a Christian, I recognize that God chose them to receive and preserve the Sacred Scriptures leading up to the Messiah, to be the ethnicity to mother The Incarnation of God’s Word~Son and to call His disciples from, and that, even in their unbelief in Jesus as Messiah, that the continued survival & thriving of the Jewish people in spite of everything, including the tragic heresy of Christian anti-semitism, is a sign of God’s continued acting in History & His faithfulness to His original Covenant people. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/29 "2016-03-06T22:44:15Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > As far as catholic doctrine is concerned (that I know), catholics don’t proselytize to jews. Simple. Why not? Can you answer that? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/30 "2016-03-07T01:09:37Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Why not? Can you answer that? > **[Church should not pursue conversion of Jews, pope says](https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/church-should-not-pursue-conversion-jews-pope-says)** > > After excerpts from the second volume of the pope’s book on Jesus made the rounds last week, featuring his rejection of the idea that “the Jews” killed Christ, the full text adds another point with important implications for Christian/Jewish... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/31 "2016-03-07T02:15:42Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > OK, first, there is the basic respect that everyone deserves until they disqualify themselves. But as to the Jewish people in particular, as a Christian, I recognize that God chose them to receive and preserve the Sacred Scriptures leading up to the Messiah, to be the ethnicity to mother The Incarnation of God’s Word~Son and to call His disciples from, and that, even in their unbelief in Jesus as Messiah, that the continued survival & thriving of the Jewish people in spite of everything, including the tragic heresy of Christian anti-semitism, is a sign of God’s continued acting in History & His faithfulness to His original Covenant people. Right. But none of that is because Jesus is Jewish. If anything, it’s the other way around. Because of the covenant, Jesus had to be Jewish. And while that is also my theology, it never resulted in me actually treating any Jewish people differently. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/32 "2016-03-07T20:37:39Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > ftg: > > Jesus (or those who chronicled his life) was likely OK with the Samaritans because he was NOT OK with the Pharisees (who were not OK with the Samaritans). > > Today’s Jews are the descendants of the Pharisees. I never read Jesus’ rebukes of _specific_ Pharisees as being “not OK” with Pharisees as a whole. He also rebuked some (but not all) rich people, some (but not all) harlots, and dang near all of his disciples at one time or another. YMMV, I’m certainly no theologian. > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > People are individuals, and there are good and bad in every single group. I’m no fan of “pick-and-choose” Christians who claim to follow the Bible, but eat bacon cheeseburgers. The story beginning with [Acts 10:10](http://biblehub.com/acts/10.htm)is the basis for Christians ignoring Old testament food rules. The story is not primarily about food, it’s about all humans being equal in God’s eyes, but food was used to make the point. It’s not a great leap to interpret the vision as applying to both. > [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Technically, he was crucified by the Romans. I’m not wrong about that, am I? It’s complicated :). Jewish law did not use the death penalty much, if at all. The Romans, OTOH, were very, very good at it and for non-citizens applied it often. The New Testament narrative, in a nutshell, is that Jesus committed blasphemy by claiming to be God. He was also gathering growing crowds and undermining the religious leaders’ authority. A handful of Jewish leaders persuaded the Roman government to crucify him and Pontius Pilate eventually gave the order. There is no dispute that it was solely Roman soldiers who carried out the punishment So, were the Romans or the Jews to blame? The answer is “neither”, any more than all Americans are to blame for the assassinations of MLK, JFK, or Lincoln. It just doesn’t work that way. In fact, one would think that Christians would celebrate the people involved for being conduits, albeit unwittingly, for the Plan to be fulfilled. To the OP - Anti-Semitism, racism, misogyny, etc., is wrong regardless of the wrapper one presents it in. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/33 "2016-03-07T20:55:51Z")
Jews are God’s blessed and chosen people according to scripture. They are stubborn (stiff necked people) according to God, make mistakes all the time and God has to rescue them over and over and they don’t learn, but God still loves them and called them his own. Whatchya gonna do 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/34 "2016-03-08T02:43:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Jews are God’s blessed and chosen people according to scripture. They are stubborn (stiff necked people) according to God, make mistakes all the time and God has to rescue them over and over and they don’t learn, but God still loves them and called them his own. My sense is that over the years, God’s playing favorites with the Jews has caused them considerable trouble. IMO, the fact that God singled out and ‘chose’ the Jews has often led to animosity towards them by some gentiles. I recall that this was a particular point used by Nazi jew-baiters, even Hitler himself. In _Mein Kampf_ he would inveigh against “The Chosen People”. Indeed, Nazi writings and propaganda material [often contain mocking references to the “Chosen People”.](https://cse.google.ca/cse?cx=partner-pub-9038140102167292:0863912746&ie=UTF-8&q=chosen+people&sa=Search&ref=&gws_rd=cr&ei=CjveVoztDsjcjgSukqTIBg#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=chosen%20people&gsc.page=1) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/35 "2016-03-08T06:44:25Z")
As an old Jewish milkman once said, “Dear God, I know we’re Your Chosen People. So, would it hurt if just once, You chose someone else?” ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/36 "2016-03-08T14:57:43Z")
Doctor Jackson: > [@](#): > > I never read Jesus’ rebukes of specific Pharisees as being “not OK” with Pharisees as a whole. He also rebuked some (but not all) rich people, some (but not all) harlots, and dang near all of his disciples at one time or another. YMMV, I’m certainly no theologian. I’m not at all a New Testament scholar, so I could be mistaken in my impression; it’s also possible that this attitude that I thought was attributed to Jesus was actually Paul’s, but I’d gotten the impression that the term “Pharisee” came, to Christians, to mean people who are meticulous about law but don’t give a damn about people, and that is at odds with his whole “turn other cheek” or “he who is without sin throw first stone” sort of attitude which is supposed to exemplify Christian teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/37 "2016-03-08T15:06:22Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Thank you all for your wonderful (and very helpful) answers! > > And, **puddleglum** , when we meet I’ll be sure to wear my Spock ears (at least one of them, anyway ;)). There is in fact an interesting relationship between the Vulcans of Star Trek and Jews - Nimoy picked out the “live long and prosper” salute Vulcans use, from the Kohanim blessing! > [@](#): > > In the mid-1960s, actor Leonard Nimoy, who was raised in a traditional Jewish home, used a single-handed version of this gesture to create the Vulcan salute for his character, Spock, on Star Trek. He has explained that while attending Orthodox services as a child, he peeked from under his father’s tallit and saw the gesture; many years later, when introducing the character of Mr. Spock, he and series creator Gene Roddenberry thought a physical component should accompany the verbal “Live long and prosper” greeting. The Jewish priestly gesture looked sufficiently alien and mysterious, and became part of Star Trek lore.[30] Nimoy later recorded an English translation of the blessing for Civilization IV; the recording is played when the player discovers the technology “Priesthood”. > **[Priestly Blessing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_Blessing)** > > The Priestly Blessing or priestly benediction (Hebrew: ברכת כהנים; translit. birkat kohanim), also known in rabbinic literature as raising of the hands (Hebrew nesiat kapayim), rising to the platform (Hebrew aliyah ledukhan), dukhenen (Yiddish from the Hebrew word dukhan – platform – because the blessing is given from a raised rostrum), or duchening, is a Hebrew prayer recited by Kohanim (the Hebrew Priests, descendants of Aaron). The text of the blessing is found in Numbers 6:23–27. > According t... 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/38 "2016-03-08T16:00:33Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I’m not at all a New Testament scholar, so I could be mistaken in my impression; it’s also possible that this attitude that I thought was attributed to Jesus was actually Paul’s… I think it was mostly from the sayings attributed to Jesus. Paul was himself a Pharisee. Paul’s big problems were with the Judaizers, who wanted Christian converts to abide by the Jewish law, especially circumcision. > [@](#): > > … but I’d gotten the impression that the term “Pharisee” came, to Christians, to mean people who are meticulous about law but don’t give a damn about people, and that is at odds with his whole “turn other cheek” or “he who is without sin throw first stone” sort of attitude which is supposed to exemplify Christian teachings. This part is true. Jesus used “the Pharisees” as examples of religious hypocrisy. > [@Matthew 23:23](#): > > Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. Jesus was also including the religious establishment of His day in his condemnation. But you are correct that “Pharisee” came to mean “religious hypocrite” only. Which is sort of natural - a lot of what the Pharisees were about was scrupulous adherence to the Jewish law, and a focus on that as well as the rise of the idea that rabbinic interpretation of the OT law was also binding on Jews. Jesus was reacting pretty strongly against a sort of nitpicking about ritual at the cost of acting in mercy and justice. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/39 "2016-03-08T16:16:04Z")
There’s a passage in Jon Ronson’s _Them_ about how (notorious) Northern Irish anti-Catholic Protestant minister Iain Paisley accepts the author into his inner circle after finding out he’s Jewish (but then makes subtle anti-Semitic remarks to him). ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880/40 "2016-03-09T14:54:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think it was mostly from the sayings attributed to Jesus. Paul was himself a Pharisee. Paul’s big problems were with the Judaizers, who wanted Christian converts to abide by the Jewish law, especially circumcision. > This part is true. Jesus used “the Pharisees” as examples of religious hypocrisy. > Jesus was also including the religious establishment of His day in his condemnation. > > But you are correct that “Pharisee” came to mean “religious hypocrite” only. Which is sort of natural - a lot of what the Pharisees were about was scrupulous adherence to the Jewish law, and a focus on that as well as the rise of the idea that rabbinic interpretation of the OT law was also binding on Jews. Jesus was reacting pretty strongly against a sort of nitpicking about ritual at the cost of acting in mercy and justice. > > Regards, > Shodan Good points, but context makes a difference. There are several instances in Matt 23 where Jesus says “Woe to the religious scholars and Pharisees”, but the context is in the first few verses: > [@](#): > > 23 1-3 Now Jesus turned to address his disciples, along with the crowd that had gathered with them. “The religion scholars and Pharisees are competent teachers in God’s Law. You won’t go wrong in following their teachings on Moses. But be careful about following them. They talk a good line, but they don’t live it. They don’t take it into their hearts and live it out in their behavior. It’s all spit-and-polish veneer. {The Message version} The ‘be careful’ part makes it clear he is later references are only addressing those scholars and Pharisees who were hypocrites - not all of them as a group. For example, later in the chapter He says " Jerusalem! Jerusalem! Murderer of prophets…". That doesn’t mean that he was rebuking everyone in Jerusalem. It’s a form of hyperbole that was common in speech and writing of the time. Out of context, though, it does kind of seem that He is preaching against whole groups. Perhaps that is where the perception mentioned by **cmkeller** arose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christs-jewishness-does-it-affect-your-feelings-about-jewish-people/747880.md?page=3)