# Chronos and Betting
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992
**Category:** About This Message Board
**Created:** [June 25, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992 "2020-06-25T14:59:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/1 "2020-06-25T14:59:03Z")
This post:
> [@I'm done with the MLB](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-done-with-the-mlb/912676/42):
>
> [Moderating] UltraVires, you know that betting is not allowed, and you therefore… make a bet? A willful violation of the rules like that will earn you a Warning.
Since when is betting not allowed? I seem to have missed it.
I didn’t always agree with **Bricker** , but he was dead right about this when he was a regular poster. His observation goes back at least to Kant:
> [@Kant](#):
>
> The usual touchstone, whether that which someone asserts is merely his persuasion — or at least his subjective conviction, that is, his firm belief — is betting. It often happens that someone propounds his views with such positive and uncompromising assurance that he seems to have entirely set aside all thought of possible error. A bet disconcerts him. Sometimes it turns out that he has a conviction which can be estimated at a value of one ducat, but not of ten. For he is very willing to venture one ducat, but when it is a question of ten he becomes aware, as he had not previously been, that it may very well be that he is in error. If, in a given case, we represent ourselves as staking the happiness of our whole life, the triumphant tone of our judgment is greatly abated; we become extremely diffident, and discover for the first time that our belief does not reach so far.
Just the fact of a bet can be intellectually healthy, regardless of the size.
Even the bet of a single dollar forces adherence to a specific proposition, and a specific time-frame, with a specific possibility of being wrong. This is why it’s so useful. Absent a religious reluctance, people who avoid even minuscule bets do so because they don’t actually believe what they’re writing.
As it is said, bets are “taxes on bullshit”. I think 2012 was the last bet I made here, but it’s still a bad move if they’re gone.
---
### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/2 "2020-06-25T15:01:09Z")
Bets have been banned on the Dope for ages now
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### Author:  [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/3 "2020-06-25T15:06:27Z")
“Since when” was the specific question in the OP.
I did a search and thought I came up with a 2017 thread in which bets weren’t banned, so it doesn’t seem like it could’ve been all that long ago…
…oh no, that thread was 2007, not 2017…
---
### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/4 "2020-06-25T15:12:51Z")
> [@Babale](#):
>
> Bets have been banned on the Dope for ages now
Actually, I’ve just gone and looked at the rules in various parts of the Dope, and this seems to be something of an overstatement.
There is nothing about betting in the [Registration Agreement, Rules, and FAQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/registration-agreement-rules-and-faq/823562/4).
There is also nothing about betting in the Game Room’s [rules](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forum-rules-and-faq-read-this-first-updated-october-3rd-2014/438452/2). (That’s where the post appeared that @Chronos gave a warning to.)
The only places where betting is explicitly forbidden, as far as I can tell, is in [Great Debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-great-debates-and-elections-january-2020/845726/4) and in [Politics and Elections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-politics-and-elections-january-2020/845727/2).
> [@](#):
>
> **No betting.** Gambling between posters in GD and Politics and Elections over debate outcomes or real world events is forbidden. In the past we’ve had posters use this as a rhetorical device to abuse other posters and accuse them of lacking the courage of their convictions. It’s a jerk move we have decided to no longer allow.
I did not know, until today, that there was any “no betting” rule at the SDMB, and it seems that the rule was never explicitly applied anywhere outside those two forums.
---
### Author:  [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/5 "2020-06-25T15:33:27Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> I did not know, until today, that there was any “no betting” rule at the SDMB, and it seems that the rule was never explicitly applied anywhere outside those two forums.
I didn’t mean for this thread to dispute a warning, but okay then. Bad warning.
> [@](#):
>
> **No betting.** Gambling between posters in GD and Politics and Elections over debate outcomes or real world events is forbidden. In the past we’ve had posters use this as a rhetorical device to abuse other posters and accuse them of lacking the courage of their convictions. It’s a jerk move we have decided to no longer allow.
Hasty justification from the mods there.
Even if it’s a jerk move to harangue people for not betting – and sure, that makes some sense – that implies a rule against haranguing people, not a rule against betting. If someone rejects an offer to bet, then just drop it. Give a warning if the hassling continues.
---
### Author:  [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/6 "2020-06-25T15:37:14Z")
This is why:
> [@Hellestal](#):
>
> Absent a religious reluctance, people who avoid even minuscule bets do so because they don’t actually believe what they’re writing.
AFAIK it’s against the rules to accuse a poster of acting in bad faith, and you even admit that the purpose of the bet is imply that the poster doesn’t believe what they are posting. It’s cheap rhetoric that attacks the poster not the post.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/7 "2020-06-25T15:40:55Z")
Because Discourse apparently hides flagged posts, I don’t know what UltraVires said or did to get moderated.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/8 "2020-06-25T15:44:44Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Because Discourse apparently hides flagged posts, I don’t know what UltraVires said or did to get moderated
Did you hit the “view ignored content” button?
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/9 "2020-06-25T15:47:24Z")
> [@Hellestal](#):
>
> Just the fact of a bet can be intellectually healthy, regardless of the size.
>
> Even the bet of a single dollar forces adherence to a specific proposition, and a specific time-frame, with a specific possibility of being wrong. This is why it’s so useful. Absent a religious reluctance, people who avoid even minuscule bets do so because they don’t actually believe what they’re writing.
>
> As it is said, bets are “taxes on bullshit”.
I don’t think that’s true. I think that people who are eager to bet have confidence in their own ability to frame the conditions of the bet, and arguing about whether or not real world happenings meet these. Then if you try to nail down conditions with them to your liking, even if there is some catch that you have found ahead of time rather than sprung up on you retroactively, they will try to argue that by not agreeing to their narrow interpretation of your statement you are somehow being intellectually dishonest.
And that’s before we get into people who just don’t pay their bet, and people do who have time to craft intellectually rigorous predictions but don’t think it’s worth it to keep track of bets and whether or not they’ll be weaseled out of or baldfacedly ignored.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/10 "2020-06-25T15:48:42Z")
> [@Babale](#):
>
> Did you hit the “view ignored content” button?
Now I see: I had originally seen Chronos’s “Moderating” post, and when I clicked to see what it was in reply to, all that came up was “This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden,” with no option to reveal the hidden post.
But going up to UltraVires’s post itself, I do see the option to “View ignored content.”
Just more Discourse quirks to get used to, I guess.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/11 "2020-06-25T15:52:30Z")
Put up or shut up is a stupid philosophy. Betting leads to grief on the boards anyway.
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### Author:  [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/12 "2020-06-25T15:54:06Z")
> [@Chingon](#):
>
> AFAIK it’s against the rules to accuse a poster of acting in bad faith, and you even admit that the purpose of the bet is imply that the poster doesn’t believe what they are posting. It’s cheap rhetoric that attacks the poster not the post.
I actually gave several reasons, not “the” reason.
Bets clarify specific positions. They create falsifiable propositions on specific, finite time-frames. This is to say: If there’s an actual agreement being hammered out, both parties will want the terms of that agreement specified with accuracy. There is value in that by itself.
But it’s also true, yes, that people who mouth off without thinking about what they’re saying will naturally be reluctant to bet. That’s not the only reason, of course. It’s actually understandable if a pseudonymous person doesn’t want to bother with the rigamarole involved in setting up an internet bet. But that – again – is a justification for a rule against haranguing, rather than a rule against all possible bets.
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/13 "2020-06-25T16:26:24Z")
I don’t see eye-to-eye with **UV** on, well, pretty much anything. And I think betting on the board does nothing but detract from conversation, no matter what forum.
But the rule in force was no betting in GD and Politics. He didn’t violate that rule, so IMO his warning should be rescinded.
Then extend the no-betting rule to all forums.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/14 "2020-06-25T16:28:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> Put up or shut up is a stupid philosophy. Betting leads to grief on the boards anyway.
I tend to agree.
But…
> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> I don’t see eye-to-eye with **UV** on, well, pretty much anything. And I think betting on the board does nothing but detract from conversation, no matter what forum.
>
> But the rule in force was no betting in GD and Politics. He didn’t violate that rule, so IMO his warning should be rescinded.
>
> Then extend the no-betting rule to all forums.
This was the main point I was trying to make. Whether you like betting or not, no-one, not even **UltraVires** , should be punished for disobeying a nonexistent rule.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/15 "2020-06-25T16:33:18Z")
I should add, by the way, that while it’s probably a good idea to remove betting challenges from general discussions, I really don’t have too much of a problem with threads like [this one](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-bet-merrick-garland-will-join-scotus/749867), which was started explicitly to bet on a particular outcome.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/16 "2020-06-25T16:39:04Z")
Huh. First I’ve heard that betting is prohibited on the SDMB. I’ve offered, or accepted, bets several times here over the years - including over politics - and no one ever complained.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/17 "2020-06-25T16:41:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> Huh. First I’ve heard that betting is prohibited on the SDMB. I’ve offered, or accepted, bets several times here over the years - including over politics - and no one ever complained…
There was a period of a couple years a few years back where at least one bet was never paid off and at least one bet that specified “to a charity of my choice” was directed to a political organization. Maybe that had to do with the decision, which wasn’t always in place.
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### Author:  [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/18 "2020-06-25T18:24:57Z")
> [@Hellestal](#):
>
> It’s a jerk move we have decided to no longer allow.
I totally agree with this. I’ve seen people in real life making use of the same abject strategy to intimidate their opponents in a debate. And yes, I took such bets with people who refused to admit defeat for various excuses. The stupidest one came from a guy claiming the definition in the encyclopedia was wrong.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/19 "2020-06-25T19:46:50Z")
Yeah, come on. I said I wasn’t sure if betting extended to donations to others’ charities and I specifically said that if it was against the rules, then to ignore my post. I wasn’t trying to skirt anything.
Betting or gambling, in my mind, extends to one person making money off of the other person. This was a donation to charity. If someone had just told me that was against the rules as well, then I self-retracted it in the very same post.
Bullshit warning.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-and-betting/912992/20 "2020-06-25T21:06:11Z")
I wasn’t accusing you of acting in bad faith. I believe that you are sincere in your beliefs that these rules are just temporary, but I equally believe that they are not. I know that the board has prohibited betting, which I have always understood to be personal enrichment, so I asked, I asked, if charitable contributions by the incorrect party would be permitted and if so, I offered a challenge, and then specifically said that if it was not permitted, then I withdrew it. I wasn’t sure, now I know and I withdraw.
I’ll admit that I did not know that the rule against betting was only for GD and elections, so I won’t attempt to take advantage of that. But I wasn’t trying to skirt a line or game any rule. And I definitely was not accusing you of posting in bad faith.
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