# Chronos banned me from the Passengers thread. (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 27, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700 "2016-12-27T15:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/41 "2016-12-31T23:04:36Z")
IMO, the best thing to do here would be to rescind the thread ban and let it suffice as a Timeout/Note with the understanding that warnings are on the line if anyone is out of line. What’s the worst that could happen? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/42 "2016-12-31T23:09:05Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m not moving any goalposts. I directly addressed Saint Cad’s post. Saint Cad stated that “you let Derleth get away with a lot worse violations of board rules”. What rules did **Derleth** violate? Attack the poster, not the post. Derleth even admits he did this … then did it again. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/43 "2017-01-01T00:25:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Attack the poster, not the post. Derleth even admits he did this … then did it again. …again: can you point out the specific violation(s), and why, in your opinion, it was “worse?” ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/44 "2017-01-01T01:09:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you didn’t challenge anyone from the group at all. You just launched a rant full of strawmen. I don’t see “rape culture everywhere.” I don’t demand “safe spaces.” I love my science fiction to be challenging and I don’t look to be offended. Yet I see this movie as problematic. But rather than addressing those things that I see as problematic, you just launched into a rant. You didn’t challenge anyone. You just made us “roll our eyes.” Of course I challenged people. I challenged the premise that even if a movie involves something oogy on some level that it therefore must be advocating for it. I challenged people to actually see a work and judge for themselves rather than listen to an agenda-driven article declaring why it’s forbidden to see. I challenged people to think about how they’d feel differently if the genders were reversed, even though the story and deception and “rape” would be the same. I challenged people as to why they feel like voluntary but not fully informed sex was somehow a worse crime than condemning someone to spend their entire life in a space prison. I challenged people on the rather extreme biases, agendas, and pet issues that made them react in such an extreme way. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m not moving any goalposts. I directly addressed Saint Cad’s post. Saint Cad stated that “you let Derleth get away with a lot worse violations of board rules”. What rules did **Derleth** violate? I didn’t violate any rules. I don’t think Derleth did anything worthy of moderating either. But if I’m going to get moderated then certainly he’s as guilty or more than me or whatever criteria you’re using. I argued against the general premise of the thread. I argued against the guy who created the article in the OP that lead to the creation of the thread. I argued generally against the posters who posted in support of it. But I didn’t call out anyone or attack anyone personally. And I easily could’ve, started with Chronos’ “dark theater” post. Whereas Derleth was certainly attacking me personally, pretty clearly trying to troll me, and in general very clearly being jerky towards me. And in fact I didn’t return the favor - I explained why his accusations fell flat, tried to engage with him, realized that he had no interested in engaging in the actual points I was making, and continued to make my case rather than attack him personally. I don’t think anyone did anything thread-ban worthy or warn-worthy in that thread. However, if we are going to have moderator action, I do think Derleth more clearly violated general board policy than I did, since my posts were attacking the premise of the thread and an article linked to support the thread. Whereas he was clearly just trying to troll me personally. So the fact that I got an unusually harsh punishment and he got nothing at all very much stands out to clearly show Chronos’ bias on the issue. Chronos characterizing this as “And yes, other posters did contribute to that as well, hence why I gave moderator instructions to them, too.” in this thread is pretty weak, given that his instructions were basically “SenorBeef, shut up. Everyone ignore SenorBeef. See, that was balanced - both sides were moderated” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/45 "2017-01-01T02:14:41Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Of course I challenged people. I challenged the premise that even if a movie involves something oogy on some level that it therefore must be advocating for it. I challenged people to actually see a work and judge for themselves rather than listen to an agenda-driven article declaring why it’s forbidden to see. I challenged people to think about how they’d feel differently if the genders were reversed, even though the story and deception and “rape” would be the same. I challenged people as to why they feel like voluntary but not fully informed sex was somehow a worse crime than condemning someone to spend their entire life in a space prison. I challenged people on the rather extreme biases, agendas, and pet issues that made them react in such an extreme way. …but you didn’t make these challenges. You ranted about “RAPE CULTURE!” And claimed that people like me want boring and unchallenging art (which is completely untrue). You didn’t critique the article and challenge us to form our own opinions. Asking us to “reverse the genders” isn’t a challenge: because my feelings wouldn’t have changed at all. Rape by deception is an actual crime: spending a life time alone is not a crime, and to claim that the two are comparable is not a challenge at all, its just very silly. You think that I have extreme biases, agendas and pet issues where I do not. And I haven’t reacted in an extreme way. You didn’t challenge anyone in that thread. You ignored the substance of what people said in that thread, you ignored the substance of what was written in the article, you created a strawman instead and attacked that strawman. And I’d be happy to discuss this further with you in a relevant forum. > [@](#): > > I didn’t violate any rules. I think we are all in agreement here. > [@](#): > > I don’t think Derleth did anything worthy of moderating either. And most, but not all, are in agreement here. > [@](#): > > But if I’m going to get moderated then certainly he’s as guilty or more than me or whatever criteria you’re using. The criteria was that you got involved in a a cafe society thread and “flipped out”, to quote Chronos. If we were to apply that criteria to Derleth: it is clear that he did not “flip out” in the same way you did, therefore if we were to apply the same criteria Derleth would be found “not guilty.” > [@](#): > > I argued against the general premise of the thread. This is the OP: > [@Welp, guess I won't be seeing "Passengers" then](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/welp-guess-i-wont-be-seeing-passengers-then/775069/1): > > All right. Saw some trailers, and really liked the look of things. Pushes most of my buttons. Scifi? Yup. Cool design and style? Yup. Mystery? Ticked that box. > > So the reason why I’m not going to see it is a spoiler, and it’s explained in more detail here: > > [Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence's Passengers isn't a romance: it's a creepy ode to manipulation  ](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2016/12/16/chris-pratt-jennifer-lawrences-passengers-isnt-romance-creepy/) > > So yeah. Glad I’m not going to spend money on that bullshit. What part of your rant addressed what was said in the OP? > [@](#): > > I argued against the guy who created the article in the OP that lead to the creation of the thread. If you had actually read the article in the OP you would have seen that it was written by a Rebecca Hawkes: who is not a guy. If you had read the article in the OP you would have seen that the word “rape” and “rape culture” were not used at all: and that your attacks on that “guy” and the article were completely off-base. Here are some more articles from Rebecca Hawkes. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/rebecca-hawkes/](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/rebecca-hawkes/) She doesn’t appear to fit the mould of someone who has “rather extreme biases, agendas, and pet issues that made them react in such an extreme way.” > [@](#): > > I argued generally against the posters who posted in support of it. But I didn’t call out anyone or attack anyone personally. And I easily could’ve, started with Chronos’ “dark theater” post. You didn’t make an argument. You just ranted. > [@](#): > > Whereas Derleth was certainly attacking me personally, pretty clearly trying to troll me, and in general very clearly being jerky towards me. In your opinion. > [@](#): > > And in fact I didn’t return the favor - I explained why his accusations fell flat, tried to engage with him, realized that he had no interested in engaging in the actual points I was making, and continued to make my case rather than attack him personally. You didn’t try and engage at all. You just ranted. Engagement requires you to listen and acknowledge Derleth’s point. And that point was “We’re fine with films tackling difficult concepts. However, we’re not OK with films skating over the difficulty with nary an acknowledgement and assuming the audience will be fine with a sympathetic protagonist doing horrible things with selfish justifications.” > [@](#): > > I don’t think anyone did anything thread-ban worthy or warn-worthy in that thread. Well that is pretty obvious. You did start a thread to protest your banning. > [@](#): > > However, if we are going to have moderator action, I do think Derleth more clearly violated general board policy than I did, since my posts were attacking the premise of the thread and an article linked to support the thread. Whereas he was clearly just trying to troll me personally. I disagree. There is a line between “snark” and “troll.” I don’t believe he/she crossed it. > [@](#): > > So the fact that I got an unusually harsh punishment and he got nothing at all very much stands out to clearly show Chronos’ bias on the issue. No it doesn’t. You got “punished” for doing something that Derleth didn’t do. Its that simple. And I don’t think you were “punished.” You were simply stopped from derailing the thread. > [@](#): > > Chronos characterizing this as “And yes, other posters did contribute to that as well, hence why I gave moderator instructions to them, too.” in this thread is pretty weak, given that his instructions were basically “SenorBeef, shut up. Everyone ignore SenorBeef. See, that was balanced - both sides were moderated” I go back to the question I asked you earlier. “Nobody else in that thread got banned from that thread. And plenty of people took the opposite position to Chronos. Why do you think that they didn’t get banned from the discussion, but you did? Can you identify anything that you may have done differently to the people that didn’t get banned from the discussion?” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/46 "2017-01-01T02:31:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …again: can you point out the specific violation(s), and why, in your opinion, it was “worse?” I already did. Post #10 ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/47 "2017-01-01T04:30:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I already did. > Post #10 …and which one was an “attack” that you considered rose to the level of violating the rules? If SenorBeef is prepared to call a wide range of posters “people whose main hobby is to find something to be offended by” then he should be prepared to have that label applied to himself. Post 10 omits context: and context is required if you want to make a fair evaluation of Derleth’s posts. Having gone and looked at them in context I don’t see anything that rose to the level of a violation IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/48 "2017-01-01T10:32:02Z")
If you honestly can’t see how the quotes I put up in post #10 attack the poster (Senor Beef) then I can’t help you. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/49 "2017-01-01T14:19:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If you honestly can’t see how the quotes I put up in post #10 attack the poster (Senor Beef) then I can’t help you. …you haven’t convinced me it there was a violation of the rules. And apparently you haven’t convinced the mods either. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/50 "2017-01-02T19:04:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you haven’t convinced me it there was a violation of the rules. And apparently you haven’t convinced the mods either. That’s fine. Just know that if I ever get modded for Telling someone they need a safe space Saying someone’s opinions are illusory and founded on a misunderstanding of what everyone else is saying. Or admit I’m making fun of someone erecting a mighty strawman and accusing them of faux outrage. Then I’m going to bring up this thread and ask why the disparate modding of posters. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700/51 "2017-01-07T16:34:40Z")
You know, writing “Spoilers” in the subject header is a little late if the preceding words just gave away the ending. Ruined the whole thread for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chronos-banned-me-from-the-passengers-thread-spoilers/775700.md?page=2)