# Chuck (12/15): "Chuck vs Santa Claus" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358 "2008-12-16T04:34:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/21 "2008-12-17T00:30:50Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Agreed - however, Fulcrum ‘knows’ that the hostage negotiator was onto something - Ned knows the ‘last person’ that he left with, and who was being manipulated thru the threat to Ellie. > > Therefore, Ned knows more than enough to help Fulcrum find something of interest. I’m hoping that they won’t drop this. I’m going to reiterate that I think Chuck should be getting more training. Even though Casey and Sarah can keep tabs on Chuck 24/7, have 3 trained agents is better than just two. This incident also gives them a great opportunity to get Chuck trained via his cover relationship with Sarah. They say that Sarah was feeling helpless as a hostage and decide to get self defense training as a couple. ---
**Author:** ![Nom\_de\_Plume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85f322/32.png) [@Nom\_de\_Plume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nom_de_Plume)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/22 "2008-12-17T00:53:34Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > A good episode. The only thing I didn’t like was that Sarah didn’t shoot the Fulcrum agent between the eyes immediately. I also had to wonder why the agent would have made the statements to begin with. If he knew FULCRUM would allow him to escape, he should have allowed himself to BE arrested. It just sounded like a challenge worded so that her only option would be to shoot him. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/23 "2008-12-17T01:05:40Z")
Good point. Maybe he expected her to be a White Hat? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/24 "2008-12-17T01:21:20Z")
I finally caught up, thanks to Hulu, but no thanks to my DVR (stupid machine). I must say it was really hard to stay away from this thread before I could watch it. Great episode! It did good job of moving everyone’s story arcs forward (except maybe John Casey). I don’t know whether I quite like the Chuck/Sarah development, although I know that they couldn’t sustain Chuck’s pining over Sarah forever. I think the issue is that, while Chuck has seen Sarah shoot people before, he’s never seen her shoot in what appeared to be cold blood. He was possibly far enough away that he didn’t hear what the FULCRUM agent had to say and so couldn’t know that Sarah was acting more out of passion. Her lying about it to his face simply compounded Chuck’s conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/25 "2008-12-17T01:42:44Z")
Yeah, you know, all things considered? This episode was SO GOOD and I am so very sad that we have to wait until Feb 2 to get more of this. This better make it through into another season, or there will be much wrath. It’s quickly becoming my number one show. (Well, at least until Burn Notice and Eureka come back and win my love anew . . . ) ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/26 "2008-12-17T01:51:24Z")
I thought it was a fun episode. Ended a little too serious, but mostly fun. I record a different channel on Chuck night, so I haven’t seen all of them. Now that I know that hulu has it, I’m gonna catch up. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/27 "2008-12-17T02:18:19Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Fulcrum ‘knows’ that the hostage negotiator was onto something - Ned knows the ‘last person’ that he left with, and who was being manipulated thru the threat to Ellie. > > Therefore, Ned knows more than enough to help Fulcrum find something of interest. > [@Xan](#): > > I’m hoping that they won’t drop this. I’m going to reiterate that I think Chuck should be getting more training. Even though Casey and Sarah can keep tabs on Chuck 24/7, have 3 trained agents is better than just two. > > This incident also gives them a great opportunity to get Chuck trained via his cover relationship with Sarah. They say that Sarah was feeling helpless as a hostage and decide to get self defense training as a couple. I agree, it’s time to give Chuck some real training. It could be very interesting to see him slowly develop into a real agent- self-confident, capable, unafraid. I wouldn’t expect him to turn into another Casey, but he could at least learn to defend himself. And then they could re-kindle the Chuck-Sarah romance! Admittedly, they do get a lot of comedy mileage out of his nervous, bumbling, semi-incompetent demeanor, and it’s fun to watch him pretend to be in control, or assume a different identity, but how long can they keep it going? > [@Kiros](#): > > Yeah, you know, all things considered? This episode was SO GOOD and I am so very sad that we have to wait until Feb 2 to get more of this. Agreed, it was a good episode, and I was very disappointed to hear there will be no new episodes until Feb. 2! ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/28 "2008-12-17T02:37:30Z")
> [@Nom\_de\_Plume](#): > > I also had to wonder why the agent would have made the statements to begin with. If he knew FULCRUM would allow him to escape, he should have allowed himself to BE arrested. It just sounded like a challenge worded so that her only option would be to shoot him. It was a painfully bad scene in a good episode. It was a challenge that he had incentive to make but the writers needed an excuse for Sarah to shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/29 "2008-12-17T03:37:11Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > It was a painfully bad scene in a good episode. It was a challenge that he had incentive to make but the writers needed an excuse for Sarah to shoot. Which, incidentally, undermines the quality in Sarah that allowed her to be able to do it in the first place. Her cold-bloodedness. Having to have a good excuse this time and slugging it out with Chuck later will only come back to undercut her when she does it again. The execution should have been changed. The Malcom Reynolds Solution [Firefly, pilot, loading ramp] would have worked better on all angles. Hell, it might even have worked as a shock factor. It would on me! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/30 "2008-12-17T04:31:31Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > I’m hoping that they won’t drop this. I hope they do. > [@](#): > > I’m going to reiterate that I think Chuck should be getting more training. I disagree. One of us will be disappointed in how the show progresses. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/31 "2008-12-17T05:41:09Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > Which, incidentally, undermines the quality in Sarah that allowed her to be able to do it in the first place. Her cold-bloodedness. Having to have a good excuse this time and slugging it out with Chuck later will only come back to undercut her when she does it again. > > The execution should have been changed. The Malcom Reynolds Solution [Firefly, pilot, loading ramp] would have worked better on all angles. Hell, it might even have worked as a shock factor. It would on me! I was thinking more like Wesley from _Angel_, when Fred was threatened. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/32 "2008-12-17T09:05:01Z")
The bad guy might as well have said “shoot me, shoot me now, no, don’t wait, it’s a better idea not to shoot me, just go ahead and do it” He should’ve been immediately kicked into an engine. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/33 "2008-12-17T16:20:33Z")
I got the impression that Ned was more of a hired lackey with some physical training, than a Fulcrum agent in the know. Chuck never flashed on Ned. So if that is the case then Ned wouldn’t really be likely to report back to Fulcrum. So the only problem is if other Fulcrum agents were watching the news and saw the negotiator walk out with Chuck and got suspicious. I’m sure the good guys could concoct some sort of story or spin to explain this. Okay, maybe it won’t be that good but the option would be taking Chuck away and getting him a new cover and life somewhere else and I think the BuyMore and the secondary characters are just too popular for that. We will just have to accept that Fulcrum doesn’t watch the news. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/34 "2008-12-17T18:00:28Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I got the impression that Ned was more of a hired lackey with some physical training, than a Fulcrum agent in the know. Chuck never flashed on Ned. So if that is the case then Ned wouldn’t really be likely to report back to Fulcrum. So the only problem is if other Fulcrum agents were watching the news and saw the negotiator walk out with Chuck and got suspicious. I’m sure the good guys could concoct some sort of story or spin to explain this. Okay, maybe it won’t be that good but the option would be taking Chuck away and getting him a new cover and life somewhere else and I think the BuyMore and the secondary characters are just too popular for that. We will just have to accept that Fulcrum doesn’t watch the news. Fulcrum is allways looking for Leverage… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/35 "2008-12-17T18:04:52Z")
I agree that Chuck should have had training by now (hand-to-hand combat, weapons, etc). But can they also please get him a haircut? I know they’re deliberately trying to make him look dorky but there’s this weird curl going on at the nape of his neck that looks incredibly stupid. I particularly noticed on Monday’s episode, but maybe I was watching more closely than I normally do. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/36 "2008-12-17T18:33:09Z")
Chuck is temporary. He will be killed when the intersect goes up. I’m assuming that’s why they haven’t trained him as an agent. It is a waste of time and make it harder for them to kill him once he’s trained. Plus, will Chuck be as cool when he’s a bad ass CIA/NSA agent? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/37 "2008-12-18T06:17:30Z")
I think I prefer the contrast of Chuck with Casey & Sarah. Chuck does save the day as an “agent” but he does it with brains & geek smarts, while managing to stay somewhat innocent. I don’t want to see Chuck getting weapons training or anything. I fully expected Casey to shoot the Fulcrum agent. Where was ol’ nine & 1/2 toes? Chuck really shouldn’t be that upset about Sarah killing someone to protect him. It’s not like she hasn’t told him twenty times she’ll do whatever it takes to protect him, and lying to him is just another way of protecting him. It might hurt, but it’s not horrific. The reason she hesitated shooting the guy immediately is because she _isn’t_ a cold-blooded killer, but will do what she needs to do. Chuck flashed on the negotiator only after he saw his watch, not his face. So Ned could have been Fulcrum but Chuck didn’t get the right trigger to flash on him. Which means Ned probably needs to have an unfortunate accident before he gets a chance to report to the wrong person. Speaking of Chuck’s hair, if I grow mine out that far, it’s just about as curly, with that same stupid curl at the back. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/38 "2008-12-19T03:14:06Z")
I came into this thread wondering how soon the “Groundhog’s Day” reference would be picked up. Post 3 as it turns out. Not bad! I loved Anna’s Santa bikini, but they should have focused more on it! After all, the plot was mostly exposition. We could hear what Chuck, et al, were saying without needing them on camera the whole time! Another wasted opportunity. **levdrakon** get a haircut! ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/39 "2008-12-19T05:13:15Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > I loved Anna’s Santa bikini, but they should have focused more on it! After all, the plot was mostly exposition. We could hear what Chuck, et al, were saying without needing them on camera the whole time! Another wasted opportunity. > ! I think Yvonne Strahovski is really hot, but I’m glad to see their spreading the fan service around. In the earlier shows, Yvonne was in her underwear almost every episode. In this one, we saw Julia Ling in her Santa bikini and both her and Sarah Lawerence cleavage shots, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358/40 "2008-12-19T10:17:31Z")
I just read about another geek reference that I hadn’t picked up on. Ned and Chuck = _Pushing Daisies_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-12-15-chuck-vs-santa-claus/477358.md?page=3)