# Chuck Berry has Died **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 18, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506 "2017-03-18T22:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/61 "2017-03-21T12:58:25Z")
The NY Times has an appreciation of his autobiography, written while serving a term in prison for tax evasion. [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/books/chuck-berrys-memoir-grabs-you-like-a-song.html?hpw&rref=books&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/books/chuck-berrys-memoir-grabs-you-like-a-song.html?hpw&rref=books&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=0) I read it years and years ago and remember thinking it was meh. But they praise his writing style as like his lyrics, and that he doesn’t hold back from discussing things like racism and being horny. But then again, they summarized it with: [QUOTE=NYTimes] The first third of Mr. Berry’s memoir is better than its second third. The final third crumbles, as did his career, into recriminations over bad business deals and legal woes. But this powerful and original book has sticking power. It doesn’t contain a false note. [/QUOTE] Maybe my opinion was shaped by that last third. I may go back and read it. The man was complex, to say the least. In a previous thread, we discussed **Chuck Klosterman’s book, But What if We’re Wrong** : [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815241](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815241) In that book, excerpted as a article in the NYTimes Magazine, he basically argues about who will be most remembered from rock n’ roll. He tends to center back on The Beatles, with obvious other nods like Elvis and Dylan, but also explores what types of icons tend to endure when picked by later generations who never experienced the innovation first hand. He ends by kind of tossing it to Berry, given his Jackie Wilson racial innovator attributes alongside the music and songs - he provides a bigger canvas that later generations can paint their own pictures on. Fine by me. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/62 "2017-03-21T13:33:49Z")
He certainly was an amazing talent! I knew he’d go eventually, but like someone said earlier in the thread, that really don’t make it any easier. RIP Chuck! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/63 "2017-03-21T13:52:01Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > He ends by kind of tossing it to Berry, given his \*\*Jackie Wilson \*\*racial innovator attributes alongside the music and songs - he provides a bigger canvas that later generations can paint their own pictures on. Fine by me. **Jackie _Robinson_** :smack::smack: Wilson was a wonderful singer, and apparently a great athlete (boxing, I think) himself, but I was meaning #42 and what he brought to baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/64 "2017-03-21T16:27:02Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > For decades I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to Berry, I figured he just wrote the same song over and over again. > > Then, in my quest to hear the 100 Best Albums of All Time (according to Rolling Stone magazine), I bought his CD [The Great 28](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Twenty-Eight). (It was number 21) > > I surprised myself at how much I enjoyed that album. Played the hell out of it. > > RIP Chuck > > mmm Well only a decade or so for me, but I followed that exact path; as much flak as RS deserves a good deal of the time, that list (and the RS Record Guide(s)) turned me on to so much great music. I formulated the understanding early enough that a renowned critic may have a personal beef with an artist and color their opinion accordingly, but to go out on a limb and state that something is the one of the “Greatest of All Time” usually deserves a listen/consideration. Thanks for all the legendary tunes, Chuck. RIP. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/65 "2017-03-22T02:42:01Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > _Maybelline_ was his break-out song, but I preferred the lyrics to his other girlfriend, _[Nadine](http://www.metrolyrics.com/nadine-lyrics-chuck-berry.html)_: > > I saw her from the corner when she turned and doubled back > And started walkin’ toward a coffee colored Cadillac > I was pushin’ through the crowd to get to where she’s at > And I was campaign shouting like a southern diplomat > > Sublime. You know, I was going to post with those very same lines. They’re just perfect. And he had the knack, unlike so many other lyricists, of getting his words to fit the meter and accents of the music just right. When you listen to Nadine, you’ll hear that the hard Cs of “coffee-colored Cadillac” accentuate the rhythm of the song just right. And “campaign shouting like a Southern diplomat” is just a wonderful, evocative image. In my opinion, he was possibly the best lyricist in rock music (with Ray Davies a close second, but that’s another thread). Listen to _Memphis_. Beautiful lyrics, with a bit of a twist. > [@](#): > > Last time I saw Marie she was waving me good-bye > With hurry-home drops on her cheek that trickled from her eye > Marie is only six years old, information please > Try to put me through to her in Memphis Tennessee Gets me every time. And another one, from _Promised Land_: > [@](#): > > Swing low chariot, come down easy > Taxi to the terminal zone > Cut your engines, cool your wings > And let me make it to the telephone The way he works “Swing low chariot” into the song, echoing and alluding to the old spiritual, is a thing of beauty. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/66 "2017-03-23T02:05:45Z")
Surely the opening bands caught on to his shtick after a while and would learn his most popular songs well and have chord charts for the rest, right? And make sure you can do a generic solo of some sort if he points at you. Honestly, if I knew going in that I would wind up playing with him (or any other great), I think I’d love it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/67 "2017-03-23T09:58:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Surely the opening bands caught on to his shtick after a while and would learn his most popular songs well and have chord charts for the rest, right? And make sure you can do a generic solo of some sort if he points at you. > > Honestly, if I knew going in that I would wind up playing with him (or any other great), I think I’d love it. You don’t know many musicians ;). The level of professionalism runs the full spectrum. In terms of playing with Chuck, yes, if a player had any clue, they would approach it the way you describe. But he played his songs in weird keys like Eb and Db (most of us play Chuck Berry songs in A or E or D; they suit the tuning of the guitar and enable a lot of rock techniques like hammer-ons and pull-offs; it is thought he played in off keys to suit his piano player Johnnie Johnson, who may have contributed more to Chuck’s songs than is commonly understood). And apparently he’d expect you to know the his version of the intro and when to come in, etc. plus he was known for not tolerating fools at all and being a hardass about not doing things his way. He _punched_ Keith Richards for playing his guitar, and also verbally abused him when Keith was rehearsing a song with him for the 60th birthday party Keith was organizing captured in the doc _Hail Hail Rock n Roll_. I would’ve been on eggshells for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/68 "2017-03-23T14:49:18Z")
I hereby offer my tribute to Chuck Berry: Fuck Elvis! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/69 "2017-03-24T10:36:19Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I hereby offer my tribute to Chuck Berry: Fuck Elvis! I don’t need to dump on Elvis to love Chuck Berry and feel that Chuck will have a more enduring memory as time goes on. Chuck wrote his songs, created the blueprint for rock n roll guitar, and crossed racial lines at a time when it really mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/70 "2017-03-24T13:24:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Surely the opening bands caught on to his shtick after a while and would learn his most popular songs well and have chord charts for the rest, right? And make sure you can do a generic solo of some sort if he points at you. **WordMan** replied to this quite adequately, but I’d like to append that by noting that Berry songs are uncomplicated and based on (now) standard rock riffs and blues patterns. Any professional pop musician could fall into the groove even if he never heard the song before. I don’t think the average public understands how spontaneous most bar-bands play, and how experience substitutes for rehearsal. Local bands I record often put the players together for the first time at a concert with minimal, if any, rehearsal, yet the performance sounds perfect, and planned, to a non-musician. The intro-chorus-solo-solo-solo-chorus&out pattern is so well established in jazz & blues that musicians follow it without thinking, as second nature, even when playing a new tune for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506/71 "2017-03-24T14:11:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I don’t think the average public understands how spontaneous most bar-bands play, and how experience substitutes for rehearsal. Local bands I record often put the players together for the first time at a concert with minimal, if any, rehearsal, yet the performance sounds perfect, and planned, to a non-musician. Yes, this is true. The stuff that would be tough with Chuck would be his use of off keys (where a bit of homework would serve you very well!), his specific changes and the combo of his legendary status AND his hardass attitude. I have no doubt I would be supporting him, he’d start a song and I would come in on the wrong key with a clank, get The Glare and just freeze. The shame!! 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-berry-has-died/782506.md?page=3)