# Chuck Todd is the undertaker of democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068 "2020-04-18T17:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/21 "2020-04-20T13:17:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In nearly 4 years of Trump and the endless list of malfeasance by the fat orange assclown and his crony administration, when was the last time we saw an honest to goodness organized RESIST! rally? Trump hasn’t stopped holding his fascist pep rallies since he took office. The progressives had one rally with some pink hats and nearly got themselves into a bitch slapping contest over it. It’s fucking embarrassing to be a liberal sometimes. There was Yvette Felarca and the Anti-fa demonstrations. It was amusing to watch the “manly” neo-Nazi bucks (some right here on this message-board) whine for arrests when Yvette pushed one with her bare hands. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/22 "2020-04-20T15:30:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You’re not alone, but there’s no excuse for the majority of news people who are willing to put the screws to interviewees on the left and play softball with the right wingers. For one thing, they know those right wingers won’t even agree to an interview if they get pressed on the facts. It’s no surprise to me when their approach to countering Fox news is to water their own down beyond recognition. What kind of journalistic integrity is involved in putting Trump on TV daily with commercial free campaign rallies under the guise of Corona virus coverage, or any other reason. Trump is a proven liar of enormous proportions. Nothing he says can be accepted at face value, any statement he makes that has a factual basis is part of a bigger lie, there is no reason to air or print his words except in their refutation. They throw his failure as President into sharp relief. If there’s anyone who hasn’t yet clued into the fact that Trump’s a failure, no problem; there will be another briefing soon. Then another, then another. These press conferences are wonderful public service announcements. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/23 "2020-04-20T15:35:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There was Yvette Felarca and the Anti-fa demonstrations. It was amusing to watch the “manly” neo-Nazi bucks (some right here on this message-board) whine for arrests when Yvette pushed one with her bare hands. I don’t recall that. Do you have a link? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/24 "2020-04-20T15:50:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t recall that. Do you have a link? Here you go, **Pepper**. You seem to be on the side of arresting the petite Ms. Felarca who was “assaulting” (tickling) the big Nazi. > [@Yvette Felarca: heroine? ... or terrorist?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/11): > > If the attack is “technically” assault, then I want her “technically” arrested – and for her to get “technically” fined, and to “technically” serve time behind bars. That post is a scroll and two clicks away from the video. Review it for us please, **Pepper**. Did Yvette drive her car over innocent people like some of your right-wing friends do? Did she carry AR-15’s in public trying to intimidate the libtards? Did she dynamite a building like some right-wingers do? Did she parade her dirty nose in public, laughing while possibly infecting people with Covid-19? No? But YOU wanted her “technically” arrested and to “technically” _go to prison_ for the “technical” assault (a hand-push) on the Nazi. **Pepper,** you are “technically” an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/25 "2020-04-20T15:54:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Here you go, **Pepper**. You seem to be on the side of arresting the petite Ms. Felarca who was “assaulting” (tickling) the big Nazi. > > That post is a scroll and two clicks away from the video. Review it for us please, **Pepper**. Did Yvette drive her car over innocent people like some of your right-wing friends do? Did she carry AR-15’s in public trying to intimidate the libtards? Did she dynamite a building like some right-wingers do? Did she parade her dirty nose in public, laughing while possibly infecting people with Covid-19? > > No? But YOU wanted her “technically” arrested and to “technically” _go to prison_ for the “technical” assault (a hand-push) on the Nazi. > > **Pepper,** you are “technically” an idiot. I just wanted clarification on whether you’re saying I’m one of the, ah, _“manly" neo-Nazi bucks (some right here on this message-board)_. Because that would seem, well, “technically” false, is the thing. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/26 "2020-04-20T16:09:07Z")
😕 I Googled because you politely asked me to. I was surprised to find you in the thread. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I just wanted clarification on whether you’re saying I’m one of the, ah, _“manly" neo-Nazi bucks (some right here on this message-board)_. Because that would seem, well, “technically” false, is the thing. If you thought I remembered that you were one of the right-wingers eager to imprison Ms. Felarca, then I’m very sorry. I’m afraid I don’t pay that much attention to you. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/27 "2020-04-20T16:11:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I just wanted clarification on whether you’re saying I’m one of the, ah, _“manly" neo-Nazi bucks (some right here on this message-board)_. Because that would seem, well, “technically” false, is the thing. It may just be my personal prejudice against Nazis talking, but I feel like in this day and age, it should be okay to shove a neo-Nazi under many circumstances, without being arrested for doing so. It’s a pretty basic philosophy, I admit: - neo-Nazis - bad - shoving neo-Nazis - good Change My View. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/28 "2020-04-20T21:02:40Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 I Googled because you politely asked me to. I was surprised to find you in the thread. > [@](#): > > If you thought I remembered that you were one of the right-wingers eager to imprison Ms. Felarca, then I’m very sorry. I don’t care whether you happened to remember it before you looked it up. If, having looked it up, you want to _now_ label me as a neo-Nazi, I’d politely ask you to, ah, _stop being incorrect,_ is all; I’m just a guy who’d be exactly as eager to see a neo-Nazi who commits assault get imprisoned for assault as I’d be to see anyone else who commits assault get imprisoned for assault, is my point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/29 "2020-04-20T21:05:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It may just be my personal prejudice against Nazis talking, but I feel like in this day and age, it should be okay to shove a neo-Nazi under many circumstances, without being arrested for doing so. > > It’s a pretty basic philosophy, I admit: > > - neo-Nazis - bad > - shoving neo-Nazis - good > > Change My View. Are you okay with someone shoving _me_ around? Someone could, after all, just take it upon themselves to declare that I’m a neo-Nazi; let’s say I mention that they’re simply incorrect, but then I get shoved. Do I get to shove back? Should the person who shoved me get arrested, or should I? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/30 "2020-04-20T21:21:23Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Are you okay with someone shoving _me_ around? Someone could, after all, just take it upon themselves to declare that I’m a neo-Nazi; let’s say I mention that they’re simply incorrect, but then I get shoved. Do I get to shove back? Should the person who shoved me get arrested, or should I? If you’re at a neo-Nazi rally, holding a Nazi flag, shouting, “Jews will not replace us!”, a shove is the least of what you deserve. But I know you wouldn’t do that. So what’s the point of your hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/31 "2020-04-20T21:33:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If you’re at a neo-Nazi rally, holding a Nazi flag, shouting, “Jews will not replace us!”, a shove is the least of what you deserve. > > But I know you wouldn’t do that. So what’s the point of your hypothetical? Just upthread, **septimus** referred to neo-Nazis right here on this message board and, when asked, linked to my post. So my ‘hypothetical’ goes like this: if somebody like **septimus** refers to me as a neo-Nazi, and I then get shoved, what are you _okay_ with? Arresting the shover? Arresting me, if I shove back? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/32 "2020-04-20T21:43:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Just upthread, **septimus** referred to neo-Nazis right here on this message board and, when asked, linked to my post. So my ‘hypothetical’ goes like this: if somebody like **septimus** refers to me as a neo-Nazi, and I then get shoved, what are you _okay_ with? Arresting the shover? Arresting me, if I shove back? If he is right, you had it coming. If he is wrong, he should not have shoved you. Ima gonna let you and **septimus** work this out between you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/33 "2020-04-20T21:50:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If he is right, you had it coming. If he is wrong, he should not have shoved you. > > Ima gonna let you and **septimus** work this out between you. Fair enough. How about it, **septimus**? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/34 "2020-04-20T22:10:57Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Fair enough. How about it, **septimus**? Tagging back in just because I’m confused about what exactly you’re attempting to prove here. He called you an idiot. You seem to want him to call you a Nazi so that you can be offended at his incorrect characterization. Then you want to know if you it’s okay to take a swing at him because he hit you first. Yeah. It’s okay. Because he just wrongly accused you and shoved you. TBH, I’m fine with however you two idiots decide to settle this. I just want to know why you’re so anxious to defend a scenario in which shoving a neo-nazi is “technically” an assault. Do you have a problem with shoving a neo-nazi in the setting of a neo-nazi rally? Because I don’t. And neither should you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/35 "2020-04-20T22:43:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Tagging back in just because I’m confused about what exactly you’re attempting to prove here. > > He called you an idiot. You seem to want him to call you a Nazi so that you can be offended at his incorrect characterization. No, he kicked this off by referring to neo-Nazis right here on this message board, and when asked he promptly linked to my post. I took issue with that only after he tossed that line out there — stating it about some folks hereabouts — since he _already_ seemed to have someone in mind, and that seems like a pretty serious accusation. > [@](#): > > I just want to know why you’re so anxious to defend a scenario in which shoving a neo-nazi is “technically” an assault. Do you have a problem with shoving a neo-nazi in the setting of a neo-nazi rally? Because I don’t. And neither should you. You mentioned hypotheticals. Here’s something that merely happened to me: I got tapped for jury duty, and as far as I could tell the case involved (a) someone who, to the best of my knowledge, had broken no laws; and (b) someone who, to the best of my knowledge, broke a law of the _no-don’t-lay-a-hand-on-them-that’s-a-crime_ type. I figure that you already know how I decided — and I’m guessing that you can figure out how the rest of the jury saw it, likewise — and _I would’ve done the same if either party had been a neo-Nazi,_ because as far as I know they hadn’t changed the law to okay what you have in mind. I therefore felt obliged, as a juror, to ask whether it was “technically” assault; and I therefore acted accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/36 "2020-04-20T23:35:22Z")
Here’s something that happened to me: When I was 11, my dad, me, and my uncle took his dog out for a walk after dinner. This was well before leash laws. It was a little dog and she ran onto someone’s lawn. Immediately she was set upon by two german shepherds that came out of nowhere. In the process of recovering the little dog, my dad was bitten. The dog owners, husband and wife, came out of the house and started yelling at my dad and uncle to get out of their yard. The woman was commanding the dogs from the front stoop in German. My uncle speaks German. He yelled to the dog owners in German to call off the dogs because one was jumping up on my uncle as he held his dog in his arms and my dad held one dog by the collar and was trying to get the other under control. An argument broke out and in short order my uncle was called a dirty kike. The next thing I remember is me holding the little dog, my uncle on top of the guy beating the shit out of him while my dad held the two big dogs at bay and the woman screaming at all of us. Police was called. An assault report was filed against my uncle. I was called to testify in court as a witness. My uncle was found guilty of assault but no jail time. I’m guessing you’ll say that the law was served. But do you think my uncle was justified in his actions? My point is, sometimes the right thing to do is not quite clear cut as you would like it to be. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/37 "2020-04-20T23:55:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It may just be my personal prejudice against Nazis talking, but I feel like in this day and age, it should be okay to shove a neo-Nazi under many circumstances, without being arrested for doing so. > > It’s a pretty basic philosophy, I admit: > > - neo-Nazis - bad > - shoving neo-Nazis - good > > Change My View. You or I could be next. I’m not saying it isn’t right to thump Nazis, just that I think it should still be a crime out of enlightened self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/38 "2020-04-20T23:57:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Here’s something that happened to me: > > When I was 11, my dad, me, and my uncle took his dog out for a walk after dinner. This was well before leash laws. It was a little dog and she ran onto someone’s lawn. Immediately she was set upon by two german shepherds that came out of nowhere. In the process of recovering the little dog, my dad was bitten. The dog owners, husband and wife, came out of the house and started yelling at my dad and uncle to get out of their yard. The woman was commanding the dogs from the front stoop in German. My uncle speaks German. He yelled to the dog owners in German to call off the dogs because one was jumping up on my uncle as he held his dog in his arms and my dad held one dog by the collar and was trying to get the other under control. An argument broke out and in short order my uncle was called a dirty kike. The next thing I remember is me holding the little dog, my uncle on top of the guy beating the shit out of him while my dad held the two big dogs at bay and the woman screaming at all of us. > > Police was called. An assault report was filed against my uncle. I was called to testify in court as a witness. My uncle was found guilty of assault but no jail time. > > I’m guessing you’ll say that the law was served. But do you think my uncle was justified in his actions? > > My point is, sometimes the right thing to do is not quite clear cut as you would like it to be. I guess my point is that we have the ‘fighting words’ doctrine for a hell of a good reason, and that what got said to your uncle _is_ that reason, and that I’d side with your uncle for that reason: we can put that dividing line there, we can say something _valuable_ about inciting an immediate breach of the peace — and we can, and do, have the law reflect that there has to be a reasonable and workable limit to that, and so we don’t let it swallow up everything in its path by expanding out to where a guy just sort of _is_ some kind of beyond-the-protection-of-the-law incitement when he’s just standing there. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/39 "2020-04-20T23:58:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It may just be my personal prejudice against Nazis talking, but I feel like in this day and age, it should be okay to shove a neo-Nazi under many circumstances, without being arrested for doing so. > > It’s a pretty basic philosophy, I admit: > > - neo-Nazis - bad > - shoving neo-Nazis - good > > Change My View. Bad is not always illegal. Good is not always legal. You shouldn’t change anything except any expectation you have that you won’t be arrested. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068/40 "2020-04-21T00:05:35Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > You or I could be next. > > I’m not saying it isn’t right to thump Nazis, just that I think it should still be a crime out of enlightened self-interest. Is this an argument that would be compelling to a neo-nazi or any other extremist who has decided that you are somehow inferior? I’m not suggesting neo-nazis need to be routed out from their homes. But if they are in a public place promoting their violent agenda, they ought not feel completely safe doing so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chuck-todd-is-the-undertaker-of-democracy/852068.md?page=3)