# Chumpsky: A different take **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379 "2003-01-13T21:31:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/1 "2003-01-13T21:31:49Z")
I’m not sure that this is the best forum for it, but since much of the **Chumpsky** stuff has taken place in the Pit, I thought I’d put it here. And, because it’s different in content than the other threads here, I wanted it to have its own. By my take, there seems little doubt that **Chumpsky** has plagiarized. Given the inflammatory nature of that “charge” and the responses that have been engendered, I am concerned that **Chumpsky** may soon be “provoked” to do something that leads to his b…, well he may leave. That would be a shame. Although I disagree with almost everything, well, OK, everything, he’s written, I still find it very valuable to read the give and take in the threads in which he’s involved. If nothing else, I give thought to how I might rebut his charges, accusations, and more outrageous statements and compare my “answers” with those provided by the more articulate and knowledgeable (and confident) Dopers. My concern is that although **Chumpsky** may well deserve the _ad hominem_ attacks he’s now subjected to, the opportunity for dispelling ignorance will be lost in the process (not to mention the likelihood that he may be provoked to do something silly - sorry if this last bit sounds patronizing, but that’s how I feel). Could **Chumpsky** not continue to be debated but without the vitriol and constant reminders of his acts? Again, I think he _does_ add something to the Board, and his plagiarism doesn’t take away from the fact that he presents a different viewpoint (that should be challenged). But, if every time he posts, the only responses are “Fuck you, liar”, I know that I, for one, have lost a chance to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/2 "2003-01-13T21:39:22Z")
> [@](#): > > But, if every time he posts, the only responses are “Fuck you, liar”, I know that I, for one, have lost a chance to learn. And if someone responded to him with that piece of witty banter, they’d be plagiarizing/paraphrasing Chumpsky. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/3 "2003-01-13T21:42:48Z")
Did we really need a third Chumpski thread? This could fit pretty well in any of the others. In any case, The only thing I have learnt from Chumpski is that he is possible among the three stupidest posters we have here and, on top of that, he is a dishonest liar. If he would decide to go elsewhere I would not miss him at all. ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/4 "2003-01-13T22:19:56Z")
**Listen,** After decades of defending dissidents, the free world can’t take a dissident? If You go through his posts, he always, as I have seen, answers. I am not always agreeing, **but I appriciate people that answers.** There is very few people that I am always, or almost always agreeing with. So what? I learn from everyone a new angle if (s)he is really answering with facts, however ‘one-sided’ or has better knowledge or with facts much better than anybody else was able to present. There is a spectrum of truths in this world. Look at those that are just yelling, clapping on each others backs, and yelling more. **I agree that plagarizing is stupid and forbidden** , but there is some limit in spitting on him or anyone else. The last week should be a lesson to us everyone. I think he have learned a lesson. Is there anyone that has not been in a position “that they have learned a lesson” the hard way? Anyhow, there is, or at least should be, pepper in every soup. It would be quite useless if here would be 10.000 posters that all would echo the same truths in all eternity. Only Breshnev and his followers would be glad with that kind of people. I many times wonder how people who just tell him, basically without any facts - in a FY-style - to shut up, think? The truth is - they don’t. Their value is just a little bit above a well-trained parrot. If they can’t argue with facts, they take the above mentioned tool and are ever so happy with their “witful” answers. It is really a vaste of time to read these jerks that never add anything to a discussion. If there would be also some representatives from, let’s say Iraq, North Korea and other countries giving their facts and views, would we just ask them to “Fuck up” etc.? Well, that day will also come. Meanwhile I am just waiting for a TV-program where a representative from e.g. USA and a representive from e.g. Iraq, would be cross-examined by a Oprah-type of person. (Not FOX-news). We can’t afford/make it happen that in SDMB, but if there would be a chance, how would You react? Henry ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/5 "2003-01-13T22:23:01Z")
In the few posts by Chumpsky that I’ve read, he seems to specialize in insulting others _before_ they start flaming him. To courteously disagree with Chumpsky results in your being insulted in his next response. Stay or go, I’ll not be wasting much time reading what he writes. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/6 "2003-01-13T22:26:59Z")
Won’t miss the boy when he does get b\*\*ned. Lots of other, honest lefties on the board who can defend their positions without the abuse and dishonesty. In my faith tradition, forgiveness follows repentance. The Chump is still swearing up and down that he didn’t plagiarize. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/7 "2003-01-13T22:47:57Z")
There’s no question that the plagiarism is a serious violation of Board rules, but there’s also no question that it might have been less of an issue if **Chumpsky** wasn’t such a hostile, obnoxious git in the first place. Certainly, his failure to immediately cop to something that any fool could see he was guilty of, and his endless mealy-mouthed protestations of unfairness, are part of the reason this has blown up into such a huge issue. Bending the truth to argue a point that you find important is one thing, but **Chumpsky** goes on to try to pick a fight with every poster who even hints of disagreeing with his worldview, no matter how tengential the point of disgreement may be. Since his politics are so extreme, this means he ends up fighting with practically everyone. The problem seems insoluble to me. **Chumpsky** at this point seems to see more or less the entire membership of this board as enemies to be battled. There seems no room for meaningful dialogue with him, so personally I couldn’t care less if he stays or goes. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/8 "2003-01-13T22:54:33Z")
I should point out that communists don’t create anything. Even Marx assumed that communism would arise in a formerly capitalist nation that had gone as far as it could in industrial development. Therefore, wannabe commie Chumpsky’s lack of personal originality should be surprising to absolutely no-one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/9 "2003-01-14T01:34:00Z")
He’s a plagiarist. A thief. If his ideas are so important, someone will come along sooner or later who can support them without resulting to thievery. Personally, I don’t think his views add anything to the boards. While a wide variety of voices is what makes this board great, I think we can survive pretty well without the “apologist for genocidal dictators” voice. Not that anyone should be banned just for holding that view, with the oh-so-important caveat of being able to follow board rules. **Chumpsky** can’t. I look forward to not seeing him around anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/10 "2003-01-14T13:37:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I many times wonder how people who just tell him, basically without any facts - in a FY-style - to shut up, think? > The truth is - they don’t. > Their value is just a little bit above a well-trained parrot. Gee, **Henry B** , a “well-trained parrot” simply repeats what someone else said as if it were speaking its own words. Yes, this reminds me of some poster on the SDMB, but not the one you are thinking of. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/11 "2003-01-14T13:50:47Z")
I would point out that we already have **Olentzero,** an enthusiastic Communist with many of Chumpsky’s ideological blind spots, but who 1. Is a friendly, smart, and agreeable guy for the most part, 2. Who is to all appearances intellectually honest and not prone to swiping other people’s work, and 3. Isn’t the instigator of a massive board-wide flame war. So I’m not sure Chumpsky has made himself that valuable a contributor. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/12 "2003-01-14T14:01:32Z")
The weird thing is he seems intent on digging his hole deeper. If he would come clean, and lay low for a little while, most of us would forget all about it. Well, not forget, but forgive. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/13 "2003-01-14T14:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Henry B \* > . . . but there is some limit in spitting on him or anyone else. > . . . > . . . I think he have learned a lesson. I think he has not learnt anything in all the time he has been here and he continues in his pigheadedness about everything. And he is the one who is insulting to the rest of the world so I can’t see why he deserves any respect. I find the argument that he is valuable because he brings a diffierent opinion pretty worthless. This is not about diversity, this is about fighting ignorance and, with that in mind, Chumpski has no redeeming qualities. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/14 "2003-01-14T14:57:39Z")
Chumpsky is invaluable in that he provides me with hours of amusement. Though, woefully that is probably not his intent. Capitalism is a failure and socialism is the way to go? See, I can’t even type that without giggling. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/15 "2003-01-14T15:28:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \* > **There’s no question that the plagiarism is a serious violation of Board rules, but there’s also no question that it might have been less of an issue if Chumpsky wasn’t such a hostile, obnoxious git in the first place. Certainly, his failure to immediately cop to something that any fool could see he was guilty of, and his endless mealy-mouthed protestations of unfairness, are part of the reason this has blown up into such a huge issue.** The above quote manages to sum up my feelings quite nicely as well. I stated my reasons for doing what I did, and despite **Chumpky’s** protestations to the contrary, I stand by what I wrote. Besides, what he continually failed to acknowledge in that thread, is that my “real” motivation is ultimately a moot point in light of the evidence brought forth. What I found quite pertinent and revealing was his implausible line of defense. Sure, I may be a bit of a bulldog once I sink my teeth in, but I was perfectly willing to let it go after the first bite. In the words of the Great Leader of The Free World, I think he “misunderestimated” my resolve 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/16 "2003-01-14T16:05:48Z")
**HenryB,** you are a complete and utter ass. > [@](#): > > It would be quite useless if here would be 10.000 posters that all would echo the same truths in all eternity. > Only Breshnev and his followers would be glad with that kind of people. > > I many times wonder how people who just tell him, basically without any facts - in a FY-style - to shut up, think? > The truth is - they don’t. > Their value is just a little bit above a well-trained parrot. Your fetishistic worship of “otherness” is pathetic. If you want otherness to be the greatest good, go hang out in IMHO. The greatest good in GD is **ability to debate.** Get this through your chemically-challenged skull - the value of any opinion in GD is _solely_ dependent on the support provided for the opinion and the ability of the presenter of the opinion to marshall his/her arguments. **Chumpsky** commits the following sins against the rules of debate: 1. He presents his opinion and the opinion of others as factual evidence; 2. He accepts as valid no evidence and citations inapposite to his POV. If he doesn’t agree with it, it is not good evidence. 3. When he cannot dispute the argument, he attacks the arguer. 4. He denies historical events when they are contrary to his world view. 5. He plagarizes. If you may note, you warthog-faced poltroon, that when anybody engagess in these sins against the gods of debate in GD, they are ostracized, **without regard to their ideology.** Except for #5, the same list applied to the banned **Wildest Bill.** Guess what? **Wildest Bill** wasn’t a Socialist. So get off your fucking high horse and figure out what is actually going on here. The problem with **Chumpsky** is not what he attempts to bring into GD, but how he does it. Otherness is great. Dissent is wonderful. But neither excuse being a dick. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/17 "2003-01-14T17:35:25Z")
The Light of all Thoughts; **Sua Sponte** > [@](#): > > The greatest good in **GD** is ability to debate. This is **The Pit**. And give we 3 examples of where the 5# comes true. I am interested. Henry ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/18 "2003-01-14T17:52:56Z")
HenryB, you are defending the indefensible. You are defending an industrial-strength asshole and his lies and stupidity and it is not reflecting well on you at all. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/19 "2003-01-14T17:54:05Z")
You are proof that it is not dissent but idiocy that pisses me off. I think you are a schmuck, **HenryB,** and I have no clue what your ideology is. > [@](#): > > The Light of all Thoughts; > > ## Sua Sponte quote: > > ## The greatest good in GD is ability to debate. > > This is The Pit. Do try to follow along, putz. I was referring to **Chumpsky’s** conduct in GD. You may have noticed that I used the word “Chumpsky.” That is what is known as a “clue.” > [@](#): > > And give we 3 examples of where the 5# comes true. > I am interested. I will answer this once you translate it into English. Sua ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379/20 "2003-01-14T18:10:25Z")
It seems like HenryB was incredulously asking for examples of Chumpski plagiarizing. HenryB, are you really _that_ stupid? Or did I misunderstand you? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chumpsky-a-different-take/148379.md?page=2)