# church custodian beaten **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977 "2003-08-18T14:56:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/21 "2003-08-19T14:44:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Right, and maybe Matthew Shepard made a sexual advance to the guys who killed him. > > Always interesting to see the instantaneous flip-flop in standards based on who gets targetted. If the victim is even tangentially pro-gay, it can’t possibly be anything but gay-bashing, the attackers are automatically guilty and deserve to rot forever in prison, it is society’s fault for not implementing gay marriage, etc., etc. If the crime is allegedly committed by gays, it’s probably the victim’s fault. > > Nice. > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* There is, at this point, not even an _allegation_ that this attack was committed by homosexuals or on behalf of homosexuals or that it had anything to do with this pastor’s opinions on homosexuality. All we know is that a custodian was asaulted by some guys who said “this is for Paul.” Can you produce a single reason to connect the dots with any gay issue other than the custodian saying “they looked gay” (which is obviously meaningless and worthless as evidence)? So where is the flip flop? There seems to be an automatic presumption in this case that the assault must have been some kind of retaliation for anti-gay statements even though there is not a shred of evidence to support that presumption. There is nothing to “flip flop” _from_. We have _no idea, whatever_ why the assault occurred but it’s not unreasonable to guess that someone was pissed at this pastor for some reason. Gambling debts or wife-boinking are just as viable as motives for the attack as homophobic sermons. Why is it ok to insinuate that it was a retaliatory attack by gay men but not to wonder if he owed money? Why is the former theory any more likely than the latter? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/22 "2003-08-19T14:44:50Z")
I’m sorry, but the bullshit detection meter is going off the scale here. How did the attackers manage to “look gay” again? Were they wearing tiny pink triangle lapel pins? Or did they pause during the attack to engage in some quick making out with each other? I don’t buy it. There’s zero credible evidence that the attackers were gay. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/23 "2003-08-19T15:32:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*I don’t buy it. There’s zero credible evidence that the attackers were gay. \*\* Admit it, my theory regarding a wild pack of country club welders sounds just as likely. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/24 "2003-08-19T15:57:47Z")
From the Archives from **vanilla** ’s link (they use frames, so no direct link is possible): > [@](#): > > **Local Church Attack Sparked By Controversial Sermon** > > (8/18/03) — Custodian Rich Bilksi says he was attacked while taking out the trash at the Church on The Rise in Westlake. Bilksi says the 4 men asked to see the pastor and when Bilksi told them he wasn’t there, the men began to attack him. The men used a tennis racket and lead gloves to abuse Bilksi. Senior Pastor Paul Endrei says he believes the men really meant to attack him for a sermon he gave about homosexuality being a sin. Gay-rights activists aren’t condoning the attacks, but they do believe the Pastor’s words were harsh may have provoked the attack. A more complete story: from channel 5: [Man Assaulted After Sermon Against Homosexuality](http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2414530/detail.html) A repeat (with more quotes) from the Plain Dealer: [Janitor beaten outside church](http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1061285999196650.xml) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/25 "2003-08-19T16:09:17Z")
I find the channel 5 headline to be rather misleading and slanted. It implies a connection between the sermon and the assault where none has been shown. ---
**Author:** ![Samm1ie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Samm1ie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Samm1ie)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/26 "2003-08-19T21:12:22Z")
From [the Plain Dealer article](http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1061285999196650.xml): > [@](#): > > Bilski . . . told police his attackers arrived . . . in a white Pontiac Firebird. Sorry, but that seals it. Gay men – especially in an upscale suburb like Westlake – driving a **Firebird?** Nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/27 "2003-08-20T00:08:25Z")
thanks for helping with the links. I still think Buck should’ve called himself Buck Naked. The local gay paper Gay Chronicles is sending someone to investigate to see if it indeed had ANYTHING at all to do with the pastors sermon on homosexuality. I wonder how they “looked gay” too. But thats the slant the news put on it, even going so far as to interview Buck. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/28 "2003-08-20T04:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stpauler \* > \*\*Is it idiotic or is it just preaching what the Bible says? I believe that the Bible does condemn homosexuality as a sin. If a pastor wants to relay the word of the bible and keep it truthful to its sources and the intended meanings behind the passages then that’s what he’s got to do. \*\* If that’s the case, then preaching what the Bible says \*\*IS \*\*idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Jeeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@Jeeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeeves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977/29 "2003-08-20T07:23:16Z")
My BS meter is going off, but that might be because we get so much shit from churches like that I have long ago stopped believing anything that they say. As others have said, if this was related to the preacher preaching what he believes the bible says about homosexuality, it was wrong and stupid. Hell, it was wrong and stupid no matter what the reason was. And any gay guys tacky enough to drive a white Firebird could well be stupid enough to do this. But I think that there is a huge leap to prove that this was gay related, that the attackers were gay, or that it happened the way the janitor said it did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/church-custodian-beaten/195977.md?page=1)