I feed the poor by paying taxes and voting in government that instigates programs that specifically address their needs, not only giving them food, but access to education and employment opportunity, medical attention and if necessary, psychiatric treatment. Fortunately doctors and nurses at public hospitals do not read the bible to me while Im half concious in emergency, that would be manipulative, would it not? Our government also supports many impoverished countries throughout the world with food and medical aid. Again, if the church or religious organization can remain altruistic and simply feed and clothe the poor without subjecting them to their particular ideology then I say keep them tax free. Preaching to the mentally unstable or vulnerable is a cheap easy way to grab converts and increase numbers. Churches should save their ideology and witnessing for people who are mentally stable and mature enough to make an informed and intelligent decision about their ideology, carefully considering the options. If the message of the gospel is so great and true, why would you have to trick people into believing it by waiting until they are desperate for food?
I’m curious as to what you think the churches do with increased numbers? They do not get extra tax breaks (or even Green Stamps) for claiming more members. They do not get more money (since they are expending money for food on people who have no money).
Generally, I think the notion of preaching to those who have come for food tends to be a bit silly, since the church is not going to get any sincere, active members that way. (Inviting those fed to services following the meal would seem to be more productive from that perspective.)
On the other hand, among the large numbers of soup kitchens out there, rather few make it a “be preached at to eat” trade-off and I hardly find the act “despicable” so much as a waste of effort.
Lordy, you must be worn out.
More than 3.9 million households, containing 9.6 million Americans, experienced “food insecurity with hunger” at least once during the year in 2003, according to the USDA. The number of Americans in households experiencing hunger rose from 7.8 million in 1999 to 9.6 million in 2003, an increase of 24 percent. — Report from the Center on Budget Priorities and Policies
Measured in many ways, we are allocating a declining share of state resources to higher education… Expressed as a share of statewide per-capita personal income (the tax base for state appropriations), state tax funding in fiscal 2000 for higher education was $23.4 billion below the peak reached in fiscal 1979. The 2000 appropriations were about 77 percent of the 1979 state tax effort… Expressed as a proportion of gross domestic product, expenditures by state and local governments for higher education in 1998 were $20.9 billion below the peak reached in 1982. The 1998 expenditures were 74 percent of the peak 1982 level. — Poverty, Race, and the Failure of Public Policy: The Crisis of Access in Higher Education, Academe Magazine
A new Center report finds that out-of-pocket medical expenses for poor adult Medicaid beneficiaries have grown twice as fast as their incomes in recent years. These individuals spend more than three times as much of their income on health care as middle-class adults with private insurance, the study finds. — Report from the Center on Budget Priorities and Policies
These data, as well as data from studies previously conducted, provide evidence that the federal-state vocational rehabilitation system has, for the most part, been an abject failure as a viable source of vocational rehabilitation services for people with severe mental illnesses. Moreover, as it is currently structured, the federal-state vocational rehabilitation system is unlikely to ever be an effective source of services for people with these brain disorders. — A Legacy Of Failure, Nations Voice on Mental Illness
Frankly, I would greatly appreciate it. But nothing you can do will get around the paperwork it requires. You think sermons are bad. How do you like filling out forms in triplicate? You’ll need your Physician Referral Form, your Pre-Authorization from Insurance Carrier, your Hospital Admission Forms (not including forms for specific treatments or procedures), your Advance Directives, your Medicare Information, your Guardianship Orders (if necessary), and sundry other forms, such as DNRs or Living Wills.
Your government? I thought you weren’t from the US…
Why don’t we just keep us all tax free?
Poor people are not stupid or mentally ill.
If feeding the poor is so great, why are you content to throw away a few pennies in taxes for the purpose of accomplishing nothing?
liberal,
I dont think I stated that.
Are you saying that voting and paying taxes is a waste? Should we not support governments based on their policies on homelessness and poverty eradication? Thats how I vote. We are also a democracy in Canada, so my statement can apply to either.
I am making a concious effort to keep this discussion general (not personal), with respect to the ideology and principle as it applies to all people in democratized nations, and attempting to discuss the specific problem(as I see it) of certain aid organizations taking advantage of those they are helping by also hitting them with a very biased ideology based on faith, not neccessarily fact. I acknowledge this isnt always the case, but it is an issue I feel warrants discussion.
I know! We could convert all the churches into “People’s Museums of Atheism.” Am I the first one to come up with this idea? Please tell me no one’s thought of it before. 
Well, in terms of efficiency, “donating” thru taxation is far less efficient than donating to provate charities, especially religious ones. (Cite.) So if you are proposing to replace private religiously based charitable activities with government programs, the poor and disadvantaged will suffer a net loss.
Shouldn’t we also support religious organizations based on how they regard the poor?
In other words, I should support my church, because we support a food shelf, subsidized day care center, and a good number of other altruistic efforts.
Regards,
Shodan
I suspect that the churches you belong to or are exposed to are simply different than the ones in my area, and quite possibly the ones in the minds of other people who support taxing churchs. If that statement sounds snarky, it’s not meant to be. There may very well be regional differences at play here.
I’m not in a position to look at the financial statements of my local churches, or have an in-depth knowledge of their every charitable act, but based on their public statements, advertisements, and the activities that I know about, most of their money goes to building maintenance, support of the clergy, religious education (church camps and the like) and the big one - missionary work. Outside of the annual Christmas pleas for toys, I rarely see or hear about church-run non-denominational charitable work.
Maybe the charitable work they’re doing is slipping under my radar, or local church members are taking their efforts and money to nearby areas (a distinct possibility), but for the most part, churches come hat in hand to the community when the roof needs fixing or they want to send members to a foreign country to convert members of other religions. Oh, and to build “youth centers” that are very explicitly about converting non-religious teenagers - that’s a big one where I live. There’s a multi-million dollar one going in not far from me, and I happen to have visited the old one, which was already huge, glitzy, and glamorous. Is that the norm? Can’t say, but given that they explicitly target members of my own religious beliefs for conversion, and none of their work benefits any needy people that I can see, pardon me if I’m a little bitter about them and others like them.
In my town there is one food pantry, and it is not run by a church. The only homeless shelters I’m aware of in the area are run by secular organizations. We most definitely have homeless people living in the area, although it’s not as prevalent as I’m sure it is in the larger urban areas a relatively short drive away. Maybe the churches are targeting their efforts in those areas, but if so, I certainly don’t hear about it and as a supporter of local charities I would think I would.
Selkie said it very well, thats the problem, most churches Ive seen struggle to justify their existence to their communities. They do very high profile occasional events that benefit the community, but their mandate is generally self-preservation and if that means they have to run a couple of soup kitchens to keep the community from taxing them, they do it…but its generally the minimum. There might be a few churches out there that exist to benefit the community they are in, but those are definitely the exception to the rule. Its quite simple, churches that expend their profits on themselves last longer and grow more because they are more comfortable and entertaining than the ones that have minimal facilities and concentrate all their effort on the community around them…just like corporations. Which is why they should be taxed like corporations.