# Chysler Shutting Down For 30 Days - Let The Brinkmanship Begin! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657 "2008-12-18T00:04:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/1 "2008-12-18T00:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Chrysler LLC announced late Wednesday that it is stopping all vehicle production in the United States for at least a month. > > All 30 of the carmaker’s plants will close after the last shift on Friday, and employees will not be asked to return to work before Jan. 19. > > Chrysler blamed the “continued lack of consumer credit for the American car buyer” for the slow-down in sales that forced the move. > > Chrysler ordinarily shuts down operations between Dec. 24 and Jan. 5 for the holidays. This closure would add roughly two weeks to that shutdown. Source: [http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/17/autos/chrysler\_shutdown/index.htm?postversion=2008121717](http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/17/autos/chrysler_shutdown/index.htm?postversion=2008121717) Political brinksmanship with Congress to secure taxpayer bailout funding? Or just a prudent business decision caused by forces outside of their control? If Congress fails to act on a bailout measure in the next few weeks, and/or the Bush administration doesn’t free up TARP money for a bailout, is this measure by Chrysler the straw that breaks the camel’s back? Any bets on what the stock market will do tomorrow? Will GM and/or Ford sit in silence or play their hands the same way? My own answer is Chrysler blinked and is betting Congress or the Administration is being forced into a decision. The countdown clock has started. The beginning of the end, or the beginning of a new economic model. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/2 "2008-12-18T00:20:53Z")
From [here](http://blogs.abcnews.com/moneybeat/2008/12/chrysler-to-tem.html): > [@ABC news blog](#): > > This will impact 46,000 UAW workers, according to Chrysler. Chrysler says these employees will receive state unemployment benefits as well as supplemental payments from Chrysler during the layoff according to a union negotiated formula. > > These workers will not be receiving their regular income. There will be an unknown number of white collar workers who will not be working as well, **but the expectation is that they will continue to receive their regular salaries during this time.** Surprise, surprise… ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/3 "2008-12-18T00:23:56Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > From [here](http://blogs.abcnews.com/moneybeat/2008/12/chrysler-to-tem.html): > > Surprise, surprise… Yeah, no shit. Wouldn’t want the home boys to be without a paycheck.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/4 "2008-12-18T00:27:05Z")
[QUOTE=The Article] Chrysler ordinarily shuts down operations between Dec. 24 and Jan. 5 for the holidays. [/QUOTE] This is another reason that I say to hell with them. Do any of you work in a private industry that completely shuts down for 12 straight days? They have made a deal with the devil in their UAW contract, and need to drive a stake through the heart of that damned thing before the government gives them a penny. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/5 "2008-12-18T00:28:45Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Surprise, surprise… My link say … > [@](#): > > Chrysler would not say how many fewer vehicles would be produced because of this shutdown. A total of 46,000 employees will be affected. They will be paid during the time off through a combination of state unemployment benefits and Chrysler contributions, **but they will not receive the full amount of their working pay, a Chrysler spokesman said.** Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/6 "2008-12-18T00:39:49Z")
The company probably has no choice with salaried employees. If it doesn’t pay them, they can sue. If it then claims it laid them off, they won’t come back. Which is probably not true of the hourly. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/7 "2008-12-18T00:41:59Z")
The problem is **consumer credit** – people that need car loans can’t get them. GM sold off GMAC and now GMAC is being cagey with car loans, requiring a credit score of 700 or over. > **[GMAC limits loans to buyers with 700+ FICO rating - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/14/gmac-limits-loans-to-buyers-with-700-fico-rating/)** > > If you're in the market for a new car, you'd better get your credit score in order first. Auto lending units are looking for top tier customers right now, and GM's captive credit arm is going so far as to mandate a FICO rating of 700 or higher. GMAC... ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/8 "2008-12-18T00:49:01Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The company probably has no choice with salaried employees. If it doesn’t pay them, they can sue. If it then claims it laid them off, they won’t come back. Which is probably not true of the hourly. That would depend on local labor laws or employment contracts, if any. In the dot com bust, my CA employer shut down for a week at Memorial Day and a week at Independence Day. You could use vacation days if you had them. Otherwise, no pay for no work. No interruption of company paid benefits, though. The great majority of employees were salaried. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/9 "2008-12-18T01:01:55Z")
This can force people to burn their vacation days - something a lot of firms like to do to take the debt off of their books. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/10 "2008-12-18T01:03:09Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > The problem is **consumer credit** – people that need car loans can’t get them. GM sold off GMAC and now GMAC is being cagey with car loans, requiring a credit score of 700 or over. > > [http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/14/gmac-limits-loans-to-buyers-with-700-fico-rating/](http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/14/gmac-limits-loans-to-buyers-with-700-fico-rating/) GMAC has its own set of problems. It’s [trying to raise capital](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=atvbRU5A_V_Y&refer=home) so it can be converted to a bank holding company, and thus eligible for TARP bailout funds. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/11 "2008-12-18T01:08:12Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Yeah, no shit. Wouldn’t want the home boys to be without a paycheck.:rolleyes: What are you complaining about? Obviously you’ve never worked the management side. Most of the salaried people will continue to be needed in the various department. Some will be on call as needed. Some will come in anyway to work on projects just for the hell of it. A lot of these people know that when they go on vacation a shit load of work piles up when they are gone. A lot of these people occasionally work long hours for no extra pay, and never get the big overtime checks the union guys do. A lot of these people know that you just can’t be replaced tomorrow They know one thing though. The plus side is that you just feel a little secure because you know that you aren’t being overpaid. You’ve gained what you have on your own merits and the employer agrees. You won’t be lightly severed like the mercenaries. If you were overpaid, you wouldn’t have the job for long. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/12 "2008-12-18T01:17:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is another reason that I say to hell with them. Do any of you work in a private industry that completely shuts down for 12 straight days? They have made a deal with the devil in their UAW contract, and need to drive a stake through the heart of that damned thing before the government gives them a penny. Actually, automotive plants shut down for 2 weeks, twice per year (the other time is in June/July) for maintenance. MOST of the employees are out of the plants during that time, but guys like my dad (before he retired) would only take off Christmas Day and New Year’s Day; the rest of the time was spent essentially de-gunking the machines and doing all of the preventative work on them that was necessary. His reward for doing this work was that he got to take his vacation whenever he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/13 "2008-12-18T02:00:27Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is another reason that I say to hell with them. Do any of you work in a private industry that completely shuts down for 12 straight days? They have made a deal with the devil in their UAW contract, and need to drive a stake through the heart of that damned thing before the government gives them a penny. I don’t work for Chrysler, but I do know that many plants and other facilities undergo a maintenance-fest where various machines and other equipment are worked on from top to bottom. The shutdowns are the only time that major maintenance can be performed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/14 "2008-12-18T02:35:50Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > I don’t work for Chrysler, but I do know that many plants and other facilities undergo a maintenance-fest where various machines and other equipment are worked on from top to bottom. The shutdowns are the only time that major maintenance can be performed. It’s common in any industry that employs an assembly-line-style method of production. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/15 "2008-12-18T02:37:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is another reason that I say to hell with them. Do any of you work in a private industry that completely shuts down for 12 straight days? They have made a deal with the devil in their UAW contract, and need to drive a stake through the heart of that damned thing before the government gives them a penny. This is SOP for the Semiconductor industry. It was a real pain in the ass, because they forced you to take vacation on **their** schedule. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/16 "2008-12-18T03:56:16Z")
Pella Windows here in the heartland does the same thing. Two weeks around Christmas to clean and retool assembly lines. SOP. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/17 "2008-12-18T04:25:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What are you complaining about? Obviously you’ve never worked the management side. > > Most of the salaried people will continue to be needed in the various department. Some will be on call as needed. Some will come in anyway to work on projects just for the hell of it. > > A lot of these people know that when they go on vacation a shit load of work piles up when they are gone. > > A lot of these people occasionally work long hours for no extra pay, and never get the big overtime checks the union guys do. > > A lot of these people know that you just can’t be replaced tomorrow > > They know one thing though. The plus side is that you just feel a little secure because you know that you aren’t being overpaid. You’ve gained what you have on your own merits and the employer agrees. You won’t be lightly severed like the mercenaries. If you were overpaid, you wouldn’t have the job for long. You expressed my sentiments in words that I don’t think I could have written so well. Everyone is being hit by all this. Don’t think all “white collar” people are crooks that got us into this sewer. There are plenty of white collar people who went through school to pursue a career and sweat it out everyday. Many of them are salary and work many more hours than their salary requires. I wish we could get past the line in the sand that exists today in America. A lot of Americans have lived high on credit and enjoyed all the consumerism that plastic could provide. Plenty have seen the American dream blaze by over their heads as they toiled at good jobs, but were priced out of housing and even the basic commodities, not to mention the healthcare nightmare. I kinda hope we’re all so screwed that we all come together and fix it all as Americans and get this country back on track. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/18 "2008-12-18T08:27:52Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > My own answer is Chrysler blinked and is betting Congress or the Administration is being forced into a decision. The countdown clock has started. The beginning of the end, or the beginning of a new economic model. When Chrysler turned off the tap ,I was one of the employees at a parts manufacturing who got the news today that we would be laid off until at least the 19th of january. My thoughts are that the legacy automakers have gotten what at least a bridge loan to see them through the next 120 days , but it wont be finalized for some time. In the mean time suppliers like us get paid 45 days after shipment, so a month shut down is pretty much fiddling with the books. I do like Toyota’s claim that they want a competitive enviroment with the legacy three, as one of the side effects of a fire sale would be. [QUOTE=Toyota] The final concern for the overseas automakers is a longer-term problem. The failure of a U.S. automaker could open the door for a Chinese or Indian automaker to buy up the assets of the failed company and create a new low-cost competitor in the U.S. [/QUOTE] It would be funny hearing about toyota needing to bring salaries into compliance because of over paid workers 😉 Declan ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/19 "2008-12-18T10:49:41Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is another reason that I say to hell with them. Do any of you work in a private industry that completely shuts down for 12 straight days? They have made a deal with the devil in their UAW contract, and need to drive a stake through the heart of that damned thing before the government gives them a penny. From 1988 to 2001, I worked in the Final Assembly and Test department of Beckman-Coulter, performing final pre-delivery testing of diagnostic consoles. We did shut down between Christmas Eve and the first Monday following New Year’s Day. It was my understanding that operations on all other devices, such as spectrophotometers and gene sequencers were also shut down, as well as the R&D labs. We were also not a union shop. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657/20 "2008-12-18T11:56:49Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is another reason that I say to hell with them. Do any of you work in a private industry that completely shuts down for 12 straight days? I do contract work for a big Swiss pharma that closes between Christmas and New Year. It’s long this year because of where the holidays fall. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chysler-shutting-down-for-30-days-let-the-brinkmanship-begin/477657.md?page=2)