# CIA's Family Jewels **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530 "2007-06-26T21:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/21 "2007-06-27T19:28:21Z")
I’m extremely curious as to what the redacted jewel was, but I’m way more interested in the illegal activities the CIA has engaged from 1973 to present. I have no doubt in my mind that they didn’t learn their lesson, other than to lie more effectively. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/22 "2007-06-27T20:26:17Z")
What I find interesting that is rarely discussed I guess outside of conspiracy wonk circles is that during this time of a ‘very different agency’ was when George HW Bush was most active in the CIA. After 1975 he went on to be the head of the CIA appointed by Ford to have a back room conflict with Carter who eventually removed him as head of the CIA, made an end run around Carter as it regards the Iran hostage crisis, got Reagan elected and then helped run foreign policy as Vice President for 8 years, to be elected President for four years, prosecuted one of the most effective foreign policies we’ve ever had, but lost the election because he did in fact raise taxes. After losing to Clinton his close relationship with Prince Bandar bin Sultan the Saudi Prince who was really close to the Bush’s and a member of the royal family of KSA, enabled him to play a big role in Saudi/American relations from the private sector, with two sons elected Governor of two key states, one being elected president as soon as Clinton left office. I’m not saying that it’s some big secret that George HW Bush was our spook president, but I find it fascinating that a man intimately involved in the operations of the CIA from 1954 until 1977 only to have an even more powerful hand in CIA operations presided over a ‘very different agency’, than the one his Father helped found out of the OSS. I don’t buy that it’s a ‘very different agency’. At least not that it’s not pulling shady stunts anymore. Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, the Balkans, Afghanistan and Gulf War II all happened after 1975. There might be some procedural differences now that it’s gone from the cowboy outfit it was in the pioneer years during the Cold War, to a more genteel bureaucratic era, but they are still running games on third world countries. That being said, he was my favorite President of all time, but I was the kid who grew up loving Darth Vader and Magneto rather than Luke and Professor X. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/23 "2007-06-28T11:10:31Z")
So, I wonder what the CIA is up to these days? is it possible that it is at work in iran, trying to topple Ahmadenijad as we speak? there were riots last night there, over the enaction of gasoline rationing! Which leads me to suspect that the CIA is at work-portraying Iran as the 'axis of evil", ascribing great power to the Iranian military, and declaring them to be on the verge of nuking Israel. When in reality, iran is broke, its people disaffected, and actually having to IMPORT gasoline! sounds like the giant has feet of clay! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/24 "2007-06-28T13:01:10Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] So, I wonder what the CIA is up to these days? is it possible that it is at work in iran, trying to topple Ahmadenijad as we speak? there were riots last night there, over the enaction of gasoline rationing! Which leads me to suspect that the CIA is at work-portraying Iran as the 'axis of evil", ascribing great power to the Iranian military, and declaring them to be on the verge of nuking Israel. When in reality, iran is broke, its people disaffected, and actually having to IMPORT gasoline! sounds like the giant has feet of clay! [/QUOTE] Ralph, you do know WHY the Iranians need to import gasoline, right? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/25 "2007-06-28T13:42:35Z")
Well, I know. What I don’t understand is Ahmadenijad’s move to preemptively ration gasoline. He doesn’t seem to have thought that one through. To make it work he would need to convince the people that the Great Satan is just about to impose sanctions on incoming petroleum products. Three hours warning wasn’t enough time, if it were possible at all. Iran is sitting on loads of oil and produces more than half of the gasoline it uses so blaming restrictions now in preparation for _possible_ sanctions would be a hard sell, especially to a population that was not already on a war footing. It was a big enough misstep that the CIA could’ve been his advisors on it. They already have a terrific track record at feeling the pulse of the Iranian people. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/26 "2007-06-28T15:59:16Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Ralph, you do know WHY the Iranians need to import gasoline, right? -Joe [/QUOTE] I was wondering that myself. They have their own oilfields. Don’t they have their own refineries? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/27 "2007-06-28T16:01:38Z")
As I understand it, the Iranian gov. subsidizes the price of gasoline (about $0.11/lter). This is costing the gov. of Iran \>$5 billion/year, and because the local refineries are old and failing (no maintainence0, they have to import more than half of their gasoline. Plus, because of the artificially low price, iranians waste fuel. So as i say, the CIA is trying to find reasons why the US should fight a war with IRAN-and none of it makes any sense. Iran’s government is so unpopular, it would not take much for it to fall. as for Iran attacking Israel-this is sheer fantasy! So the warmongers in the CIA are going to have to work harder at this-the old “WMD” stuff won’t do for me! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/28 "2007-06-28T16:20:24Z")
It is much more expensive per barrel for Iran to pump oil. They are making a smaller margin on their product than most other countries even though they have such a high volume. I think the CIA is stirring up trouble in Iran, but I bet it’s less than we think. Their operations in Iraq are probably the worst, where they are supplying weapons to Sunnis to fight Al Qaeda. The CIA is currently operating in Paraguay around the Ciudad de Este area. Ciudad de Este is in part of a no man’s land that has no radar cover and is essentially an anarchic zone. It sits near one of the largest freshwater aquifers in the world. There is a large Lebanese population in Paraguay, and so the fear is Hizbollah, but Ciudad de Este is a major money laundering center for everything from Chinese software piracy to Colombian drug runners. [http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front\_Page/HH03Aa01.html](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/HH03Aa01.html) [http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front\_Page/HH04Aa01.html](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/HH04Aa01.html) This is a two part series by Pepe Escobar about Paraguay, Ciudad de Este and the Lebanese population there. Latin America is the CIA’s playground. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/29 "2007-06-28T19:25:21Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I think the CIA is stirring up trouble in Iran, but I bet it’s less than we think. [/QUOTE] I meant to imply CIA agents were actually trying to be helpful to Ahmadenijad in suggesting pre-emptive rationing. That’s the sort of dumb move they’d think was brilliant. Or maybe it was somebody the CIA trained who did it. Sometimes I think the only reason we survived the Cold War was because the KGB was as incompetent as the CIA and that politicians on both sides knew they could safely ignore their spies. “Send them out of the country. Then if anybody gets killed it’ll be black, brown, or yellow people who can’t vote for us anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/30 "2007-06-30T14:05:53Z")
[Outrageous if true:](http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0%2C5942%2C21980496%2C00.html) > [@](#): > > EASILY lost, on page 425, in the mass of the CIA’s notorious “Family Jewels” files is a short paragraph outlining “potentially embarrassing Agency activities”. > > “Experiments in influencing human behaviour through the administration of mind- or personality-altering drugs to unwitting subjects.” > > Of all the heinous acts committed by the CIA in the name of national security, these experiments, done on the agency’s behalf by prominent psychiatrists on innocent victims - including children as young as four - may be the darkest. > > \ > > The nature of the experiments, gathered from government documents and testimony in numerous lawsuits brought against the CIA, is shocking, from testing LSD on children to implanting electrodes in victims’ brains to deliberately poisoning people with uranium. > > “The CIA bought my services from my grandfather in 1952 starting at the tender age of four,” wrote Carol Rutz of her experiences. > > "Over the next 12 years, I was tested, trained, and used in various ways. Electroshock, drugs, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, and other types of trauma were used to make me complain and split my personality (to create multiple personalities for specific tasks). Each alter or personality was created to respond to a post-hypnotic trigger, then perform an act and (I would) not remember it later. How credible is _The Australian?_ ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/31 "2007-06-30T20:20:26Z")
**BrainGlutton** It was called MKUltra and was investigated by the Rockefeller Commission in 1977. > **[MKUltra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mkultra)** > > Project MKUltra (or MK-Ultra)\[a\] was an illegal human experimentation program designed and undertaken by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and intended to develop procedures and identify drugs that could be used during interrogations to weaken people and force confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture. It began in 1953 and was halted in 1973. MKUltra used numerous methods to manipulate its subjects' mental states and brain functions, such as the covert administrati MKU... I read an interesting theory that said that Charles Manson was a possible test subject as a juvenile. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/32 "2007-07-01T14:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] If anybody is really and truly shocked, its only because they weren’t paying attention. Mostly, just another opportunity for dirty fucking hippies to say “Told you so!”. Which pales after about the ten thousandth repetition. [/QUOTE] I do find it dreadfully tiresome, luci. I appreciate the self-awareness. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/33 "2007-07-01T16:10:49Z")
You poor dear! Would it help if we all got together for a group hug? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/34 "2007-07-02T15:41:36Z")
Hmm . . . According to [this,](http://www.serendipity.li/cia/olson2.htm) Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were involved in the 1975 coverup of the 1953 murder of biowarfare scientist Frank Olson. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530/35 "2007-07-02T16:34:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Hmm . . . According to [this,](http://www.serendipity.li/cia/olson2.htm) Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were involved in the 1975 coverup of the 1953 murder of biowarfare scientist Frank Olson. [/QUOTE] Of course they were. Bush the elder Rummy and Cheney were all Nixon’s droogs from back in the day. These are the guys that know if there are UFOs for real or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cias-family-jewels/409530.md?page=1)