# cider vs. apple juice **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 20, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791 "2010-10-20T15:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Carlheh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Carlheh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlheh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/21 "2010-10-21T19:52:47Z")
This article was extremly confusing for me as a European, as cider is here only hard cider - fermented stuff. In Sweden there’s a third cathegory called “cider” (which has been exported to some countries, for example the UK). It’s an apple based carbonated and sweetned soda, sometimes with alcohol added. [Kopparbergs Brewery - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopparbergs_Brewery) There’s an ongoing debate of what the difference between (hard) cider and apple wine is. The consensus runs along the line that apple wine is always non-fizzy and with a higher alcohol and remaining sugar content. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/22 "2010-10-21T23:41:10Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > This may be true in some region of the US, but it is completely false in the Northeast, where “Apple juice” and “cider” have been distinctly different in both appearance and taste at least since the 50s. Thanks for this, I thought I was going nuts. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi-Ian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@Kiwi-Ian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi-Ian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/23 "2010-10-22T00:13:42Z")
At first I thought that this was a silly question. Then as I looked it up I realised that in America cider is non-alcoholic! In the rest of the world, apple juice is a pleasant sweet juice you can give to children and cider can knock you over. Scrumpy cider can be up to 10% alcohol but normally cider is equivalent to beer. There you are. In America there is a definition problem, elsewhere it’s VERY different. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/24 "2010-10-22T01:49:01Z")
She stuck her finger in my martini. I put mine in cider. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/25 "2010-10-22T03:01:43Z")
Another (muddled) data point: I’m looking at the jug of “Trader Joe’s Apple Cider” I just bought. The ingredients listing says “fresh pressed apple juice.” ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/26 "2010-10-22T04:49:16Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > Both juice and cider can be “filtered” or “unfiltered” The “cloudy stuff” is filtered just as much as the clear stuff. However before the clear stuff is filtered, the processor adds an enzyme to the juice/cider that congeals the stuff that makes the juice cloudy and makes it settles to the bottom. > > A decade or two ago, all juice and cider was clear. Processors thought that the cloudy juice looked dirty and people wouldn’t buy it because apple juice is suppose to be a clear golden liquid. What happened is that there was a home juice press appliance fad that came and went. However, when people squeezed their own apple juice, it was cloudy. Hence, people started associating the cloudy juice with being “natural”. > > Cider and Juice are merely marketing terms in the U.S. I had a friend who worked at Motts, and the same stuff coming out of the plant was labeled as both “juice” and “cider”. The difference simply had to do with marketing: Parents preferred to buy juice for their kids because cider sounds iffy – it could contain alcohol. Adults like buying cider because it sounds more natural (and maybe, they’re hoping, it is alcoholic). > > Same stuff. Hogwash. A decade or two ago was 1990-2000. I’ve made cider since the 70’s. Been drinking it since the 50’s. It’s been made in the US for oh, over 200 years. Cider is the pressed juice of fresh apples. My press is in the basement. Very few people own their own cider presses, and if there was a fad for it, it was back in the 70’s when we got ours. The juice that comes from it is brown and wonderful. The unpasteurized stuff tastes the best, but either type tastes much better than apple juice, which is light gold and filtered and pasteurized until it is tasteless. Cider is generally only sold in the fall through the winter. Apple juice you can get any time. And the cider we used to buy from commercial presses was also brown and cloudy…it wasn’t just home presses that made it that way, that’s the way it comes! Cider doesn’t sound iffy to anyone who knows anything about apple juice. And if you are American, you don’t first think alcohol when you think cider. Adults like buying it because it tastes good. If they are hoping it is alcoholic, they must not be wondering why no one cards you when you are buying it and why every children’s Halloween party seems to feature cider. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/27 "2010-10-22T04:51:15Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Another (muddled) data point: I’m looking at the jug of “Trader Joe’s Apple Cider” I just bought. The ingredients listing says “fresh pressed apple juice.” That’s because it is the juice from apples. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/28 "2010-10-22T10:55:02Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Applejack is distilled. Hard cider isn’t. Which would make it related to calvados. ---
**Author:** ![Dukeguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dukeguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dukeguy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/29 "2010-10-22T11:41:48Z")
Why don’t the US just change it so it makes sense: Apple Juice from concentrate (the clear stuff) Apple Juice from real apples only (the brown, cloudy good stuff) Cider - fermented apple juice that appeals to underage drinkers Get in line America - you’ve been like the unruly, emo offspring for 234 years and it’s getting boring ---
**Author:** ![SoulBlazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@SoulBlazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulBlazer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/30 "2010-10-22T12:45:18Z")
It’s really simple here in the states, cider is from real apples and hard cider is alcoholic, what’s so confusing about that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/31 "2010-10-22T14:06:12Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Which would make it related to calvados. Exactly. I have yet to make applejack. I’ve won ribbons for my hard cider. Great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/32 "2010-10-22T16:42:49Z")
> [@Dukeguy](#): > > Why don’t the US just change it so it makes sense: > > Apple Juice from concentrate (the clear stuff) > Apple Juice from real apples only (the brown, cloudy good stuff) > Cider - fermented apple juice that appeals to underage drinkers > > Get in line America - you’ve been like the unruly, emo offspring for 234 years and it’s getting boring Heh. We’ve been the USA for 234 years specifically for the right to differ from Mama Britain, so forgive us if we don’t throw that over right now. Hellfire, we can’t even come to a consensus within our nation. Why on Earth would we take anyone else’s word for it? Yeah. 'round here, it’s “juice” (clear, sweet, filtered, often from concentrate); “cider” (sweet or tartish, unfiltered, brown); and “hard cider” (the latter, given the loving attention of the appropriate fermenting yeasts. Similar, taste-and-texture-wise, but somewhat fizzy. And not the kind of thing you can knock back by the quart unless you have someplace to pour yourself into afterwards.) ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/33 "2010-10-22T18:35:22Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > This may be true in some region of the US, but it is completely false in the Northeast, where “Apple juice” and “cider” have been distinctly different in both appearance and taste at least since the 50s. > > And this, too, has no resemblance to reality as I have known it for the last half century or so in Maine, New Jersey, and eastern Pennsylvania. > > If this is truly a regional difference, perhaps that explains the somewhat foozlier aspects of the original column. You can add western PA to your list and complete the state. My grandfather (a farmer in western PA) made cider that was great, and what we bought in eastern PA was the clearly same substance. I was one disappointed puppy when I moved out to CO and tried some of what Mott’s calls cider. Now, my kids get confused because I talk about “real cider” vs what is available here. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/34 "2010-10-23T04:22:33Z")
Okay, so what is cider vinegar? You take apples and press them and then…? If I’m not mistaken (and I probably am), cider that goes bad either ferments (turns hard) or turns vinegary and undrinkable. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/35 "2010-10-23T09:42:58Z")
Wait, some people drink cider vinegar? Cider vinegar is made from letting apple cider turn to vinegar; well at least it’s how I make it. I use it then in sauces and such. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/36 "2010-10-23T13:08:39Z")
> [@BleizDu](#): > > Wait, some people drink cider vinegar? Yes. The Bragg Company is making a selection of [cider vinegar-based beverages](http://bragg.com/blog/index.php/all-natural-organic-whole-live-foods/bragg-organic-apple-cider-vinegar-drinks-offer-alcohol-free-alternative-to-kombucha-drinks/). I’ve tasted Ginger Spice version; it is tangy and slightly astringent with just a touch of sweetness. Not bad, actually. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/37 "2010-10-23T14:34:43Z")
Oh ok, I was picturing someone drinking straight up vinegar. (though maybe it exists too?) ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/38 "2010-10-23T15:21:42Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Okay, so what is cider vinegar? You take apples and press them and then…? > If I’m not mistaken (and I probably am), cider that goes bad either ferments (turns hard) or turns vinegary and undrinkable. You let apple juice ferment into alcoholic apple wine (by adding yeast), then you add vinegar bacteria that transform the alcohol into vingear acid. There was a movement in the 80s, with lots of books, about the health benefits of apple vinegar (compared to normal vinegar, that’s made from plain burnt alcohol). As usual with wonder cures, a grain of truth was wildly overblown. The application was either half a spoon of apple vinegar into half a glass of water, drunk in the morning to balance the acids or something; or applying vinegar topically. For example, bathing your feet in water with a dash of vinegar lowers the special odour. And it does taste better than plain vinegar in cooking / dressings. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/39 "2010-10-23T15:37:08Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > And it does taste better than plain vinegar in cooking / dressings. AND it is a great ingredient in savory pie shells. I use it in my pate brisée. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791/40 "2010-10-23T16:51:12Z")
I’ll hazard a guess that the “Washington state outfit” mentioned in the article is [TreeTop](http://www.treetop.com/). I couldn’t find anything on the site about the difference between juice and cider, though. > [@Dukeguy](#): > > Apple Juice from real apples only (the brown, cloudy good stuff) I presume even the concentrate is also made from “real” apples 😛 Me, I wants to try some [scumble](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flora_and_fauna_of_the_Discworld#Scumble). (It’s “mostly” apples…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cider-vs-apple-juice/557791.md?page=3)