# Cigarette butts: a debate without hate for smokers (I hope) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946 "2013-03-14T19:58:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/21 "2013-03-15T02:51:03Z")
Okay, so we’re agreed that the behaviour is common. Is there no hope of changing it? We’ve changed some pretty major social dysfunctions, or at least turned the corner: sexism, racism, homophobia, drunk driving, smoking itself. Changing some littering can’t be worse than all of those, can it? I am thinking of a nice PR campaign of butts marring an otherwise idyllic nature scene, preferably with fluffy wildlife. Or maybe photos like **bouv** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/22 "2013-03-15T02:55:28Z")
My rule is simple: if there are no trash cans (where there should be) throw it on good old Earth. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/23 "2013-03-15T10:09:51Z")
**diego** , can I ask if you do that with other items? If you finished a soda and there were no cans would you throw the bottle on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/24 "2013-03-15T10:23:23Z")
Case to case, I guess. If it’s a butt, then yes. If it’s a bottle, I’ll probably stow it neatly at some corner where a sweep or a scrounger is sure to pick it up, so I probably did something good there. If it’s your usual unsightly trash, I would take time to look for a “proper” place. But a cigarette butt? Waste of energy looking. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/25 "2013-03-15T12:48:44Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Case to case, I guess. If it’s a butt, then yes. If it’s a bottle, I’ll probably stow it neatly at some corner where a sweep or a scrounger is sure to pick it up, so I probably did something good there. If it’s your usual unsightly trash, I would take time to look for a “proper” place. > > But a cigarette butt? Waste of energy looking. I’m really curious why. What’s the difference—size? Material? And is there anything that would convince you it was worth the energy? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/26 "2013-03-15T14:02:40Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I am thinking of a nice PR campaign of butts marring an otherwise idyllic nature scene, preferably with fluffy wildlife. Or maybe photos like **bouv** ’s. I think that would be a great idea. The problem is, though, that public opinion is that we should all quit smoking, period. A campaign like you’re proposing is telling people to smoke responsibly. That’s kind of moving backwards. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/27 "2013-03-15T14:28:59Z")
I suppose, but that’s a very black-and-white way to look at it. Couldn’t part of the anti-smoking campaign stigmatize bad behaviour? Again, smoking around other people was considered fine until recently. You were supposed to ask if people minded if you smoked, and they were supposed to say “no, go ahead” no matter what they actually thought. Most people, in my experience, never even bothered with this charade. This has changed completely, and most smokers are pretty polite about that most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/28 "2013-03-15T14:43:52Z")
Yeah, that’s a good idea. I guess what I’m thinking of is the (very faulty) argument that if we teach teens to use birth control, that’s the same as endorsing teenage sex. A campaign to discourage butt littering might be a hard sell. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/29 "2013-03-15T14:56:52Z")
A bit beside the point, but I recall an intro bioengineering class I took in school. For the last project, we were told to gather any sort of material to culture and see what we got. The variety of sources collected by the class was considerable. By far, the most infected and potentially harmful samples were the cigarette butts collected from the ground. The professor was delighted with the student who’d thought to do that, and joyfully walked us through all the telltale signs from the resulting cultures (all of which I forgot long ago, not having taken the bio path.) Lesson learned: that sh\*t is **nasty**. Be careful when cleaning them up! ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/30 "2013-03-15T14:59:16Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I did research and learned that while filters remove tobacco tars they add a whole slew of nasty chemicals caused by hot smoke drawn through synthetic fibers and decided it was healthier to smoke unfiltered and did so.. You were probably right. It was probably even more true a bit earlier, when filters contained asbestos (though, they probably wouldn’t melt.) ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/31 "2013-03-19T04:49:56Z")
When Indiana experienced one of its worse droughts / summers with days above 100 F, Indiana passed a law that if you toss a lit cig out of the car window its a $10,000 fine. cite [http://www.whas11.com/news/Ind-enforces-10000-fine-for-throwing-cigarettes-out-window-162877956.html](http://www.whas11.com/news/Ind-enforces-10000-fine-for-throwing-cigarettes-out-window-162877956.html) “State Police said they are so serious that instead of a written warning like before, they will write a ticket right away.” ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/32 "2013-03-19T13:18:53Z")
If candy bar wrappers had to be lit on fire to enjoy, and there wasn’t a candy bar wrapper tray around, I’d probably just stamp it out when I’m done and move on with my life. Better then starting a trash fire. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/33 "2013-03-19T13:26:53Z")
I don’t like the idea of birds and fish eating butts though. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/34 "2013-03-21T16:13:17Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > I don’t like the idea of birds and fish eating butts though. You shouldn’t. Unlike, say, candy wrappers, cigarette butts are toxic. Google tells me they are the most common form of litter in the world. They leach poisons into water and damp earth. Nicotine is a popular general-purpose pesticide. Cigarette filters are very persistent in the environment. I’m not saying smokers are evil people, but discarding your toxic waste across the planet without a thought as to what it might harm is an evil act. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/35 "2013-03-21T17:37:14Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Littering is not socially acceptable. People do it anyway. Somehow, it is _more_ acceptable (or less unacceptable) to dispose of cigarette butts on the ground than other items. I don’t think it’s “more acceptable,” I just think we haven’t been able to stop them, and a lot of people have given up. This may be controversial, but I’ll try not to sound biased: I’m not certain it’s linked to the butts _per se_. With perhaps two exceptions, all of the smokers I’ve known (and a surprising percentage of those I’ve observed but do not know personally) generally have a laxer attitude about littering than the other people I associate with (admittedly there might be selection bias in the people with whom I choose to associate). I wonder if it’s “smokers tend to litter” rather than “cigarette butts are commonly accepted as litter.” Even if my suspicion is true, of course, that leaves unanswered whether smoking accustoms them to dropping their butts, or whether certain personality types are likelier to take up smoking in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/36 "2013-03-21T17:39:10Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > When I was a smoker, the vast majority of my butt-littering (ha!) was out the window of my car. Otherwise I would generally try to dispose of them in an appropriate receptacle, _if conveniently available_. > > Part of the problem as I see it is the lack of such appropriate receptacles. In what is likely a misguided effort to discourage smoking, buildlings/establishments no longer have ashtray trash cans (similar to [these](http://sell.pakuya.com/upload/20111230/ashtray_bin_outdoor_waste_bin_trash_can.jpg); basically a normal outdoor trash can with a sand-filled ashtray on the lid), which used to be pretty much standard building entrance accompaniment. The result is, I don’t want to just toss it in a regular bin and potentially start a fire, nor, in the absence of a trash can, am I going to put it out and carry it around in my pocket, nor do I want to just start a pile of butts right outside of the door, so my only real choice is to flick it in the bushes or into the street. I’m not saying that’s right, but it’s why I did it. > > My point is, when there is a proper place to dispose of butts, smokers will use them, but when there are not, they’re just going to flick them and walk away because honestly, and again I’m not saying it’s right, but honestly they don’t really give a fuck. This, says another smoker. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946/37 "2013-03-21T19:34:15Z")
One issue that hasn’t been raised that’s a major difference between cigarette butts and other sorts of trash is that cigarette butts stink. This may come as a surprise to non-smokers, who know that smokers just stink in general, but in general, after half an hour or so, a smoker won’t really smell very offensive to all but the closest or most sensitive of noses. If they have a cigarette butt in their pocket, however, even other smokers will be able to smell them. This isn’t the case with a candy wrapper or an empty pop can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cigarette-butts-a-debate-without-hate-for-smokers-i-hope/652946.md?page=1)