# Cindy Sheehan has lost her ever-loving mind **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071 "2005-09-17T00:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/241 "2005-09-29T03:54:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Look up ‘distinguish’ and ‘disregard’ in your dictionary. These are not synonyms. > > There were surely military in N.O. at that time who were doing logistical or rescue operations with a sidearm incidentally strapped to their hips. But judging from pictures and press accounts, there were also a lot of military in N.O. at that time who were seemingly doing neither, but were rather walking around holding big damn guns out in front of them. Oh, no, the military has big scary weapons! Color me shocked. What are they supposed to carry, daisies? New Orleans is not, and has not, been “occupied” in any rational definition of the term. She’s delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/242 "2005-09-29T06:45:40Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > But **Starving Artist** , you _didn’t_ restrain yourself. Not completely. > > Your post was meant as an insult to me. That was obvious. But you chose an indirect (and IMO, less honest) way to do that. > > I’m not especially proud of my posts in this thread. Raw emotion is a vulnerability, and rarely comfortable - for either the ventee, or those reading along. > > But as far as I know, this is the appropriate forum for venting and ranting, however childish. Isn’t that so? > > In fact, this particular forum (the Pit), is why a friend referred me here in the first place, after I complained about the indirect anger and insults on another messageboard we frequent. > > Is your passive-aggressive anger more appropriate (or mature, or valid) than my direct replies? Or are you only fooling yourself with that rationale? > > Something to think about. I’ll give you this: I am thinking about it too. The conundrum I was faced with was how to say to **Zoe** (and to anyone else who knew **Zoe** and who knew of my comparison regarding you) that I was hasty and in error in posting what I did, while at the same time not being insulting to you…something I didn’t really want to do for fear of appearing disingenuous to **Zoe** and the others by appearing to use the occasion to deliver a backhanded insult to you, which is just how it did ultimately sound. So then I considered emailing **Zoe** privately, but this would leave the others I mentioned with the wrong impression, and, to me, seemed a backhanded way of going about it…talking about you behind your back, in other words. Ultimately, I decided that there was simply no way I could convey to **Zoe** that I felt myself to have erred in a negative way without simultaneously insulting you in the process…so I decided to do it, but to try to do it in a minimal way. This is why I said I “restrained” myself. My second post, made after you jumped so harshly upon the comments that I had tried so hard to craft in a delicate way, is more along the line of what I would have said without that restraint. I confess to being somewhat mystified by you. I still sense good qualities in you (qualities evident even in the post I’m answering now) yet there are few posters here who can set my teeth on edge as quickly as you seem able to do. Thus, I decided to investigate a little, and I checked out a fair portion of the posts you’ve made since you came here…and honestly, you don’t seem to be that bad of a person. I almost (:p) felt badly about dumping on you like I did. I think perhaps the problem lies in the fact that you come on so strongly virtually out of nowhere and that you are rather effective at being unpleasant when you want to be. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/243 "2005-09-30T01:26:45Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > Ooh! A semantical nit-pick! > > Something a not-very-smart person might pick up on? Correct. A stupid person **would** consider that a semantic nit-pick. ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/244 "2005-09-30T23:43:25Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Correct. A stupid person **would** consider that a semantic nit-pick. Are you saying that the defense of a malaprop, in a particular circumstance, implies stupidity? Or that the _use_ of a malaprop is enough to conclude delusion in the one using it? I get the feeling you know better. A feeling so strong that I’m not even going to bother to spell it out for you, using numerous current examples in the highest echelon of government. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/245 "2005-10-01T00:29:54Z")
A stupid person would consider it a “semantic nit-pick.” We are talking about semantics, but it’s not a nit-pick as there are huge differences in meaning between the terms “occupation” and “rescue mission.” They have completelely meaning and connotations. All that they have in common is that they both entail a presence in a given area. Only the type of idiot who equates “assault” with “life-saving surgery” would consider the distinction a nit-pick. That’s why you are an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/246 "2005-10-01T00:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Referring to the country’s enemies, Bush said, “They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” [http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0805042bush1.html](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0805042bush1.html) ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/247 "2005-10-01T00:39:36Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I confess to being somewhat mystified by you. I still sense good qualities in you (qualities evident even in the post I’m answering now) yet there are few posters here who can set my teeth on edge as quickly as you seem able to do. Thus, I decided to investigate a little, and I checked out a fair portion of the posts you’ve made since you came here…and honestly, you don’t seem to be that bad of a person. I almost (:p) felt badly about dumping on you like I did. I think perhaps the problem lies in the fact that you come on so strongly virtually out of nowhere and that you are rather effective at being unpleasant when you want to be. I thank you for your apparent honesty, but ask you to consider: - War is an unpleasant topic. - Maybe your own reaction to me was affected by your assumption that I would behave exactly as your friend would (which is one reason why that type of comparison rarely sits well with the ones being compared). - Maybe you are, regardless of other fine qualities, a poor judge of character. I don’t know you, so I can’t offer a final analyisis. I do wonder why you frequent the Pit, if you expect pleasant discourse. Even so, I thank you again. Maybe I have hit on something by finding this place at this particular time. Maybe my supposed propensity for unpleasantness (as you’ve mentioned) will cause some people to think through, or re-think, their opinions. That would be a good thing, no? ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/248 "2005-10-01T00:48:01Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > A stupid person would consider it a “semantic nit-pick.” > > We are talking about semantics, but it’s not a nit-pick as there are huge differences in meaning between the terms “occupation” and “rescue mission.” They have completelely meaning and connotations. All that they have in common is that they both entail a presence in a given area. > > Only the type of idiot who equates “assault” with “life-saving surgery” would consider the distinction a nit-pick. > > That’s why you are an idiot. I didn’t realize the point of this thread was to prove that _I_ was an idiot. Maybe I misunderestimated you. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/249 "2005-10-01T01:16:59Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > I didn’t realize the point of this thread was to prove that _I_ was an idiot. > > Maybe I misunderestimated you. It’s not, and you’re the one that proved it, not I. I’m just dealing with it. We could discuss more interesting things. ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/250 "2005-10-01T01:34:35Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It’s not, and you’re the one that proved it, not I. > > I’m just dealing with it. > > We could discuss more interesting things. That’s pretty weak, **Scylla**. My 9-year-old son could do better than that. But I agree - there are now more interesting things going on. Things that require your fine mind to disassemble the facts for the benefit of the people. You have my blessings to argue elsewhere. I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/251 "2005-10-01T03:35:32Z")
The ire directed at Ms. Sheehan is misplaced. She is what she seems. Not articulate, not brilliant, not a leader. Just a woman who’s son’s life has been sacrificed. She believes needlessly, I cannot disagree. But so what? A couple of years ago, there were similar stories of soldier’s parents blaming Bush, publicly denouncing The Leader. They hit the news for the prescribed 15 minutes, and vanished. What’s changed is that Ms. Sheehan’s position has legitimacy now. In the beauty shops, diners, truck stops, bowling alleys…people _relate_ to her. Two years ago, GW’s teflon armor would have protected him. But that’s gone. Mr. Lincoln, it would appear, was right. You really can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/252 "2005-10-01T19:14:44Z")
Do people similarly relate to her when she’s sticking up for Lynne Stewart, or blaming our foreign policy woes on a Zionist cabal? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/253 "2005-10-02T01:13:59Z")
Wow, a true pit topic. I’ve been avoiding threads dealing with Katrina after realizing it probably wasn’t doing me any good venting about people’s stupidity. I’ll drop in a few comments here for no reason other than to comment on her article and make some points about failures to help people. Guys, **everyone** failed the people of New Orleans and the surrounding region. People are using it to get some shots in against Bush but the state and local governments are at fault also, probably more so than the Feds. > [@Cindy](#): > > I wonder why the government made them leave at great expense and uproot families who have been living in their communities for generations Lack of all basic services, utilities,stores and pretty much anything else while bands of criminals move through the streets. Good reasons to me. > [@Cindy](#): > > Tens of thousands of families in our country have been devastated because of the incompetence and callousness of our so-called leadership. They were devastated by a hurricane. > [@Cindy](#): > > Malik Rahim, a new friend of ours and resident of Algiers, told us stories of the days after the hurricane. The government declared martial law, but there was no effective police presence to enforce it. Malik said the lawlessness was rampant. People were running out of food and water and they were being forced to go to the Superdome. They didn’t want to go to the Superdome, because their homes were pretty intact: they wanted to stay and have food and water brought to them. A town of 76,000 people dwindled down to 3,000. The die hards were rewarded last Wednesday when the VFP rolled into town with food and water. The Camp Casey III people were the first ones to bring any relief to Algiers. The people who were supposed to look after its citizens, our government, failed them. This makes little sense and contains a few falsehoods obvious to anyone who lives here. Algiers is on the opposite side of the Mississippi river from the Superdome. People were not being forced to cross the bridge from Algiers to the Superdome, especially as stated that there were no police to enforce martial law, much less go around rounding up thousands of people and marching them over 3 miles. People on the Westbank, actually South of the city, evacuate West, not North 3 miles and then cross flooded areas to join thousands of people with no supplies. I was going to post about the troops Cindy mentioned before this but sadly have not. Since she describes United States soldiers walking around standing on the necks of the poor citizens of Algiers and New Orleans while setting up machine gun nests, I’ll describe what I’ve seen of our troops. Distribution centers for MREs(which are great food, especially when there is none to be bought), ice, water, tarps to fix your roof, formula and diapers. National Guard troops from Pennsylvania have been standing out in 95 - 100 degree weather all day giving out supplies to civilians pulling up in air conditioned cars. They were nothing but gracious and some even thanked us for stopping by. I still have no idea how those guys do it, I’d have fallen over after an hour. I saw the 82nd airborne set up a medical clinic while all the hospitals were either closed due to damage/looting or swamped with people. They also traveled door to door helping people. Soldiers secured our neighborhoods and made sure the curfew was enforced. They are heading home now and we will miss them greatly. By the way Nagin, mayor of New Orleans was the one trying to force people to leave their homes. The National Guard refused. Anyway, thanks to Pennsylvania and all the other states that sent National Guard troops. Your sons and daughters helped many people. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the storm relief, it has helped with many of the wounds the area has suffered. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/254 "2005-10-02T03:20:19Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Do people similarly relate to her when she’s sticking up for Lynne Stewart, or blaming our foreign policy woes on a Zionist cabal? I suspect so. They relate to _her_, and so they will listen. But their willingness to _admit_ that they relate to her is a more recent development, her point of view has become legitimate. As a partisan, I wish she were more informed and articulate, as a parent, I should be ashamed even to pretend to judge. It would be bad enough to live with your child dying for his country. I cannot fathom what it must be like if you believe he died needlessly. As she does. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/255 "2005-10-02T19:44:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I suspect so. They relate to _her_, and so they will listen. But their willingness to _admit_ that they relate to her is a more recent development, her point of view has become legitimate. I have to disagree here. People generally are moderate and reasonable, and will relate to Cindy Sheehan if she’s similarly moderate and reasonable. They’ll do so even if they disagree with her on some points. However, Cindy Sheehan isn’t terribly moderate or reasonable, as any realistic appraisal of her positions and statements show. Her little movement has been losing steam since she has been more vocal about her political views, which are far out of the mainstream of American politics. For crying out loud, she has vocally defended a woman who aided and abetted known terrorists, and was convicted for such. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/256 "2005-10-02T20:25:08Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I have to disagree here. > > People generally are moderate and reasonable, and will relate to Cindy Sheehan if she’s similarly moderate and reasonable. They’ll do so even if they disagree with her on some points… Didn’t say “agree with”. Said “relate to”. Very different things. As in my previous example, couple years back, of parents who blamed Bush for their loss. Many people could relate, very few agreed. Now, more people agree _as well as_ “relate”. > [@](#): > > …Her little movement has been losing steam since she has been more vocal about her political views, which are far out of the mainstream of American politics. For crying out loud, she has vocally defended a woman who aided and abetted known terrorists, and was convicted for such. Unfortunate wording. I haven’t listened to Ms. Sheehan at all, so I cannot comment. But does she “vocally defend” a terrorist for being a terrorist, or does she defend her by claiming that she has _not_ aided and abetted a terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/257 "2005-10-02T21:24:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But does she “vocally defend” a terrorist for being a terrorist, or does she defend her by claiming that she has _not_ aided and abetted a terrorist? Rather than trouble **Mr. Moto** for a response, why not see what some of the “reasonable moderates that people can relate to” have to say about her? Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, Malkin; real salt of the earth, American mainstream types. They’ll give you the Sraight Dope on Sheehan. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/258 "2005-10-04T17:42:12Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Rather than trouble **Mr. Moto** for a response, why not see what some of the “reasonable moderates that people can relate to” have to say about her? Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, Malkin; real salt of the earth, American mainstream types. I’ll assume it’s early in the morning and I’m still too trip-lagged to miss the whoose here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071.md?page=12)