# Cindy Sheehan has lost her ever-loving mind **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071 "2005-09-17T00:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/161 "2005-09-19T17:05:42Z")
Roll video, GeeDub, Oval Office, dark suit red tie… “My fellow Merkins. I did it. Lied through my teeth, piled bullshit upon bullshit, whole damned time, hoooooo-doggies! the whoppers I told!..(and so on and so forth…)” We: “There you have it! Pretty much settles that!..” They: “Well, how do you know he’s telling the truth _now_! After all, you guys are all on about what a liar he is, how do you know he’s not lying now and was telling the truth then?” Wheeeee! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/162 "2005-09-19T17:37:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > :yawn: > > Who cares? This woman has no power. Some lady doesn’t want military troops in New Orleans? Who gives a fuck? Who’s getting hurt by it? How does it make Bush less of a chimp? Because she’s quickly morphing into a raving fruitcake providing the opposition with a steady stream of soundbites to be used against the anti war people. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/163 "2005-09-19T17:46:08Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > … utter intellectual prostitution… choking down whatever The Leader gives you. Stupid piece of filth. > > …lying piece of shit, a disgusting virtually braindead apologist…cowardly asshole … > > …you asshole munching waste of space. > (my apologies to those who do enjoy munching assholes…) > > … piece of medical waste: … you honorless liar. > > … it’s slimey, it’s dishonest, and it’s par for the course for an internet-bottom-feeder like you. > > **I’m not foaming at the mouth**. …You also have only made yourself look really stupid. Here let me do it again… > > I know, it makes your head hurt. > > No… you fucking waste of genetic material. … You fucking moron. As for understanding? You’re never going to, you’re a drolling apologist moron. > > .you’re painfully stupid. Again monkeyboy, inevitable != not inevitable. > > …you’re too fucking stupid for me to take the time. I simply pointed out what would be blazingly obvious to anybody not busy licking up puddles of lead paint. > > Second, you’re mentally deficient, remember? Do you need Sesame Street to run a skit on it or something? > > Fool. … you’re a moron. > > Jeez. You’re still being stupid. Do you need help to tie your shoes in the morning, or has your mommy just saved time and given you velcro? > > Furthermore, you dried cumstain, the slurry of shit and hot air that slushes around your skull? It seems not to be working. > > Moron? Hello, moron? …moron, … But again, you’re a fucking moron. I assume that basic vocabulary is far beyond your abilities. > > You lying sack of shit, your level of idiocy is off the charts while your level of dishonesty is on the level of the lowest class of poster on the internet. … you ignorant asshole? > > You are a lying piece of shit. > > And, by the way, for a mentally retarded person to post on a message board like this is good, and you should feel somewhat proud. But you really should learn to keep your fucking fingers off the keyboard,… See, you’re too fucking stupid to understand … > > Tool. > > …you lying piece of apologist filth? > > Lying shill. … You fucking lying piece of shit, have a shred of honor of get the fuck off this message board. > > …more poor reading skills? …you ignorant gumflapping bottom feeder. > > In addition, …apologist strawmen …handwaving in the world won’t change that. > > Mother of Irony… > > …anybody with two neurons to rub together. > > moron…strawmen, innuendo, insinuation and idiocy…you open your yap and have a fit of verbal diarrhea. > > You’re just a shill. http://www.bordersstores.com/search/title\_detail.jsp?id=3805167&srchTerms=webster%27s+english+dictionary&mediaType=1&srchType=Keyword http://www.bordersstores.com/search/search.jsp?srchTerms=introduction+to+logic&mediaType=1&srchType=Keyword&doSearch.x=0&doSearch.y=0 http://www.xanax.com/content.asp?id=2&sid=3 http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/anger.html http://www.mhsanctuary.com/suicide/hotline.htm Good luck on your journey, Finn. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/164 "2005-09-19T17:56:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > After all, you guys are all on about what a liar he is, how do you know he’s not lying now and was telling the truth then?" Good point! (So I guess this means you’re acknowledging that no irrefutable proof outside of Bush’s word really does exist; and secondly, that we’ll never know exactly whether he lied or not. This is most gratifying as it’s what we on the other side have been saying all along.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/165 "2005-09-19T17:57:31Z")
Ah, another devestating factual rebuttal. It’s a wonder that the Dope functions at all when you’re away. Oh and, by the way, not one single one of your links works. You can’t even do that right. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/166 "2005-09-19T17:59:50Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > (So I guess this means you’re acknowledging that no irrefutable proof outside of Bush’s word really does exist; and secondly, that we’ll never know exactly whether he lied or not. This is most gratifying as it’s what we on the other side have been saying all along.) 😛 to you **Starving**. There is a mountain of evidence, and it hasn’t been refuted. We don’t need a signed confession. And, in any case, the DSM _is_ what Bush told the Brits. Instead, you might say that no evidence, short of Bush admitting it, would convince some of his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/167 "2005-09-19T18:19:09Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > you might say that no evidence, short of Bush admitting it, would convince some of his supporters. No…because as **Elucidator** so insightfully (ahem) elucidated, we would then have no way to establish whether he had lied about the war, or whether he had lied about lying about the war. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/168 "2005-09-19T18:22:36Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > No…because as **Elucidator** so insightfully (ahem) elucidated, we would then have no way to establish whether he had lied about the war, or whether he had lied about lying about the war. Man, I gotta get some of you Bush supporters on a jury if I ever kill anybody in cold blood with a dozen witnesses. It’s like a get out of jail free card! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/169 "2005-09-19T18:39:22Z")
Yes, but you’d have to be a _Republican_ first; otherwise we’d say “Hell, yeah…string the sumbitch up!”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/170 "2005-09-19T18:52:09Z")
Crazy is the new “card-carrying liberal,” don’tcha understand? These days, right-wingers positively trip over themselves to be the first to tar those who speak out against Bush with the “delusional” brush. Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Paul O’Neill, Richard Clarke, Joe Wilson, Dan Rather, (9/11 widow) Kristin Braitweiser, Cindy Sheehan … they’re all cuckoo according to these flailing, pathetic Bush-defenders. Since the talking point is that Cindy’s crazy, they repeat it over and over again in their echo chambers. And it’s so effective that even some lefties are falling over backwards to stiff-arm Sheehan, afraid to associate themselves with her. Just look at the first few posts on this thread from many known SDMB liberals, all basically saying “Cindy S. doesn’t count.” Through all this, no one actually has any **reasons** for believing she’s delusional. It’s just the latest meaningless meme the right is trying to spread, like “blame game” was last week. And for the third time, if she’s delusional because she calls N.O. “occupied,” then you’d better fucking call Brian Williams delusional as well. Disagreeing with you is NOT crazy, rightwingers. (Indeed, to some that may be the very definition of sanity.) Now to the hijack… > [@Scylla](#): > > No. It really really didn’t. I know more about rule 144 stock transactions than anybody should be forced to know. Yes, well, perhaps you’ll forgive me if I trust respected experts, authors and journalists such as Kevin Phillips, Charles Lewis, Lou Dubose, and Craig Unger far more than some anonymous dude on a message board, no matter how many posts he has. (I learned _my_ facts from sources such as this [Texas Observer article](http://www.texasobserver.org/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=1069), not to mention the aforementioned _American Dynasty_ by conservative Kevin Phillips, _Bushwacked_ by Lou Dubose & Molly Ivans, the non-partisan [Center for Public Integrity](http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=465), among many many others.) > [@](#): > > In fact, the stock offering **helped** Harkens as it provided much needed cash and the stock went up as a result of the news. Look at a chart on the stock. Or, better yet, read the 12 page trainwreck on the subject wherein we go into excruciating detail. > > I’m an expert on rule144 stock sales. Here’s how it works. Insiders always have inside information. There’s nothing wrong with them posessing it. There’s nothing wrong with them selling their stock either. What they cannot do is sell their stock based on material nonpublic information (or buy it for that matter.) > > Since Bush had a need for capital for his Rangers venture it would be tough to make the argument that Bush’s sale was predicated on any information he had regarding Harkens immediate future. > > “Material” means there has to be real losses by investors who did not posess the information available to the insider. There were none as the offering was a **positive** for the company that drove the price up. Drove the price _up_? Not quite. Bush sold his stock after the board was told Harken was in serious financial trouble. He then hurriedly sold his stock for $4 per share prior to the release of this news. And after Harken’s fiscal crisis (a 60% plunge in profits) was revealed, the stock spiraled down 20% in a single day, eventually selling for only $1 per share. This, to you, is a positive development for investors? I can’t imagine that the folks who sold their shares for $3 less than Bush would agree with you. But then again, neither I nor these unfortunate members of the _hoi polloi_ are experts. Here’s the timeline: - May 1990: Harken sent an internal memo indicating that things were so craptastic financially that they might not even be able to make their mid-June payroll. _Note: when questioned later, Bush claimed he didn’t know about the company’s financial condition. Odd, since he was on their audit committee!_ - June 1990: Harken’s lawyers also sent out a memo, this one warning everyone against selling based on insider information. - A week after the attorney memo, Bush sold his 200,000 some-odd Harken shares for $800K, grabbing $4 per share. _Note: Bush also neglected to file the required SEC insider forms for eight months, despite having been specifically warned to file timely insider reports a few times before. He claims the SEC lost his filing._ - August 1990: Harken announced its major 2nd quarter losses of $26 million, sending its stock plummeting 20% in a single day. By the end of the year, it sold for only $1/share. Bush was investigated but cleared by the SEC. So he MUST be innocent, right? Why else would the SEC clear him? I’m sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the SEC chairman at the time had been appointed by Bush Sr. himself. And that the SEC’s counsel had actually worked for GWB, helping with his Texas Rangers purchase. One big happy family! Anyway, let’s look at your five requirements for suspecting skulduggery: > [@Scylla](#): > > 1. What specifically was the information? > 2. Prove that Bush posessed it. > 3. Show that Bush acted on it. > 4. Demonstrate its materiality. > 5. Show the losses. 1. Harken was in serious financial straits, unable to make its June 15 payroll, and would soon to reveal $26 million in 2nd quarter losses. 2. Well, the internal memo was sent to all directors, including Bush. One must assume he posessed it (unless the dog ate that along with Bush’s SEC filing). 3. GWB sold his stock less than a month later for $4 a share. You claim that this is a coincidence, that W desperately needed the money to buy the Rangers. I say, bullshit. Bush already had a loan from the bank on whose board of directors he comfortably sat. (The very sort of loan he’d complain about once he became President, btw. But that’s irrelevant.) 4. It was material, according to your definition, because investors who sold after learning of the losses wouldn’t have gotten the same price Bush got for it. 5. The losses? Immediately after the release of the bad fiscal news, Harken’s stock went down 20%. That seems like a loss to li’l ol’ non-144-expert me. Bush was a success in obtaining money – not earning it. Claiming he’s a “self-made” anything makes Horatio Alger turn over in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/171 "2005-09-19T19:07:22Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Disagreeing with you is NOT crazy, rightwingers. Indeed, I couldn’t agree more. It’s being _liberal_ that’s crazy! 😃 > [@choie](#): > > Bush was a success in obtaining money – not earning it. Claiming he’s a “self-made” anything makes Horatio Alger turn over in his grave. Being a good Republican, I always thought earning money was the same as obtaining it, and that obtaining it was the same as earning it. Isn’t this really just six of one and a half-dozen of the other? And I suspect that the opinion of Horatio Hornblower (as Carter is wont to say) would depend to a large degree on his political persuasion…not the “self-made” comment. (Just like you and just like me, huh?) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/172 "2005-09-19T19:09:17Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Being a good Republican, I always thought earning money was the same as obtaining it, and that obtaining it was the same as earning it. Isn’t this really just six of one and a half-dozen of the other? By that definition, mobsters earn their money, too. Six of one, half dozen of another, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/173 "2005-09-19T19:26:45Z")
Depends on the context. My post was based on the supposition no illegality was involved in Bush’s business dealings. This supposition is based of course, on the fact that so far (amazingly) no one here has alleged any. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/174 "2005-09-19T19:30:29Z")
Nuh uh **Starving**. Check back on one of my posts where I pointed out that, _at least 11 million dollars_ in land grabs that Bush made for the rangers were, if not illegal per se (or a crime), certianly not legal. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/175 "2005-09-19T20:26:38Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Being a good Republican, I always thought earning money was the same as obtaining it, and that obtaining it was the same as earning it. Isn’t this really just six of one and a half-dozen of the other? This explains a lot about contemporary kleptocratic Republicanism, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/176 "2005-09-19T20:28:36Z")
Ah, I see you’re a member in good standing of the “words don’t mean what they mean, they mean whatever I want them to mean” school of liberalism. Freedom is a wonderful thing I know…but too much freedom results in anarchy. I prefer to think that if Bush’s activities weren’t illegal (a crime), then they were legal (and not a crime). N’est pas? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/177 "2005-09-19T22:42:24Z")
So you claim that the land grabs which were not legal and which nobody was prosecuted for are… what? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/178 "2005-09-19T23:01:31Z")
Come on, **Finn** , you’re losing perspective here. Your own words were that Bush’s so-called land grabs were “not illegal per se.” If they’re not illegal, per se, they’re not illegal…period! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/179 "2005-09-19T23:04:01Z")
Apart from that, and in attempt to be honest here, I must confess I know nothing about Bush’s so-called “land grabs”, it’s just that common sense dictates that if they had been illegal, Bush would have been brought to account for them…especially given the tremendous amount of hatred heaped upon him by the left. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071/180 "2005-09-19T23:17:04Z")
**Starvin’** , darlin’, for the moment I pass no judgment on whether or not Bush earned his money. The expression “self-made” is usually reserved for those who start out with little or nothing and become successful. > [@](#): > > **choie** : Just look at the first few posts on this thread from many known SDMB liberals, all basically saying “Cindy S. doesn’t count.” I don’t think the posts are saying that Cindy doesn’t count. Liberals generally think everyone counts. Speaking only for myself, I disagree with her on _some_ issues and I think that her message is becoming unfocused. I never automatically agree with someone just because she or he is also liberal. That doesn’t mean that I am dismissive. BTW, I _really_ like your sources. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-has-lost-her-ever-loving-mind/322071.md?page=10)