# Cindy Sheehan is a toolbag. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454 "2006-02-01T02:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/241 "2006-02-03T02:26:13Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Oprah owns Harpo Productions and the studio where her show is filmed. Someone else owns the Chicago Reader and the right to censor SDMB. > > But George Bush and the members of Congress are public servants. The Capitol belongs to American citizens. That’s a bit naive. From a philosophical standpoint you’re 100% correct, but while we “own” the White House I challenge you to try to move in there. If you’re lucky you might even be able to get a ticket for the House tour, otherwise you’ll never even get near it. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/242 "2006-02-03T03:41:47Z")
> [@wring](#): > > you seem to ignore the fact that although both t-shirt wearers were evicted, only **one** was arrested. can you guess which one??? And you seem to ignore the fact that one of the t-shirt wearers has an arrest record for similiar activity, and the other one (almost certainly) does not. Can you guess which one? I agree neither should have been arrested or evicted. But statements like: “Bah. If she had worn a shirt saying “God Bless President Bush” she would have been left alone.” are demonstrably false. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/243 "2006-02-03T03:54:05Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > And you seem to ignore the fact that one of the t-shirt wearers has an arrest record for similiar activity One of them has been arrested for wearing a T-shirt before? Which one? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/244 "2006-02-03T03:58:45Z")
Hey, **Mr. Doors**! How are things in the Wild Blue Yonder? Can’t you see a difference in the White House and the Capitol’s gallery? The White House used to be much more open to the public, by the way. In early days, people _could_ walk in. Even now, you can’t get as close as you could during the 1970’s. BTW, the President was in Nashville the day after the State of the Union Address. He made a speech at the Grand Old Opry House – which has a large seating capacity. It was for Republicans only. (I think our Democratic mayor was there.) I think all of his visits here have been invitation only. Does anyone know the last time that he spoke to a crowd that wasn’t handpicked or invitation only? Has it ever happened? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/245 "2006-02-03T04:03:28Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > That’s a bit naive. And sad, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/246 "2006-02-03T04:22:35Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Hey, **Mr. Doors**! How are things in the Wild Blue Yonder? Not bad, thanks. > [@](#): > > Can’t you see a difference in the White House and the Capitol’s gallery? Nope. Both are limited access with rules and restrictions, both require invitations or some sort of permitted access, and both are supposedly “ours”. They are “ours” in the strictest sense, because it was our taxes that built it and continue to maintain it, but that doesn’t mean that you can go in there and act the fool with no consequences. > [@](#): > > The White House used to be much more open to the public, by the way. In early days, people _could_ walk in. Even now, you can’t get as close as you could during the 1970’s. Can you now? 'Nuff said. > [@](#): > > BTW, the President was in Nashville the day after the State of the Union Address. He made a speech at the Grand Old Opry House – which has a large seating capacity. It was for Republicans only. (I think our Democratic mayor was there.) I think all of his visits here have been invitation only. Which is his prerogative, except in certain cases like the SotU Address. > [@](#): > > Does anyone know the last time that he spoke to a crowd that wasn’t handpicked or invitation only? Has it ever happened? Nope. Why does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/247 "2006-02-03T05:24:57Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > You know, I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but not now. > > [Anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan, a guest of Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-California, was arrested by Capitol Police when she unfolded an anti-war banner. A senior House official said Sheehan was seated in the House chamber. The official said she was taken for questioning for about an hour in a separate area of the House. No other details were immediately available.](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/bush.sotu/index.html?section=cnn_topstories) > > No matter how much they hate each other, the Democrats at least allow the President to speak without much interruption or ado. They are respectful of the significance of the Address. Mrs. Sheehan, alas, cannot. > > She is not part of the show. She was invited, probably to force Bush to look at her, but that wasn’t good enough. No, she had to try to grandstand and disrupt an important part of our government. > > Well, that’s not kosher with me. She’s a toolbag, and no matter how noble or worthwhile her cause may be, she is doing it a disservice by actions like these. I’m gonna go ahead and post my agreement with you on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/248 "2006-02-03T12:29:11Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Which is his prerogative, except in certain cases like the SotU Address. Who paid for the trip? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/249 "2006-02-03T14:39:58Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And, of course, her freedom comes at the expense of mine, because I’ve caught 5 pages of hell for exercising it, the right to denounce her in a manner I see fit. What I object to is not your statement that you disagree with her actions, opinions, statements, etc., but that you think it appropriate to have her removed from the chamber and perhaps punished for what she did. That is where you, in my opinion, go wrong. Disagree all you want, but defend her _right_ to wear whatever she wants without being hassled by the Capitol Police. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/250 "2006-02-03T14:55:52Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > It appears that reasonable assumption given both history and the circumstances of the evening is wrong unless, of course, you are perceived to be on the right side of things, which I quite clearly am not. The only right answer is that Cindy Sheehan can do anything she wants anywhere she wants to do it because to do otherwise abridges her rights to free speech, it seems. If she sells an 8-ball of cocaine in front of the police station while screaming, “LAWS ARE FOR OTHER PEOPLE, JESUS WAS A MOTHERFUCKER!,” I’ll bet you a billion dollars she is arrested. > [@](#): > > And, of course, her freedom comes at the expense of mine, because I’ve caught 5 pages of hell for exercising it, the right to denounce her in a manner I see fit. Yeeeeees. That’s right. Your actual freedom of speech has been quashed by a government entity contrary to the Constitution. You aren’t just being shouted down on a tiny message board. > [@](#): > > You know, the very right you are claiming she has. I don’t think anyone here has argued for her right to post here. Or is she formerly banned? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/251 "2006-02-03T15:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > It appears that reasonable assumption given both history and the circumstances of the evening is wrong unless, of course, you are perceived to be on the right side of things, which I quite clearly am not. The only right answer is that Cindy Sheehan can do anything she wants anywhere she wants to do it because to do otherwise abridges her rights to free speech, it seems. And, of course, her freedom comes at the expense of mine, because I’ve caught 5 pages of hell for exercising it, the right to denounce her in a manner I see fit. > > You know, the very right you are claiming she has. This is a peculiar statement, and, I think, one unworthy of you, since: 1.) Posting incorrect trivia about **Star Wars** on this Board can get you five pages of hell. The response is totally unrelated to the importance or relevance of the OP. 2.) Unless you were wrestled off the SDMB by the Mods (and later apologized to) for making your post I don’t see the parallel. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/252 "2006-02-03T15:31:23Z")
I’m curious about one thing: Is the visitor’s gallery of the House really the place to be protesting during the president’s speech? After all, the Constitution requires the prez to advise the Congress about the state of the Union, doesn’t it? Actually, I think it might be pretty cool to have it set up as follows: 1. Prez gives speech. 2. Leader of the other party gives a speech in response. 3. Folks in the gallery, _after those two speeches_, unfurl whatever banners, unloose whatever noisemakers, lift whatever placards they happen to have ready with them. Actually, that would be pretty fun. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/253 "2006-02-03T15:37:34Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > This is a peculiar statement, and, I think, one unworthy of you, since: > > 1.) Posting incorrect trivia about **Star Wars** on this Board can get you five pages of hell. The response is totally unrelated to the importance or relevance of the OP. > 2.) Unless you were wrestled off the SDMB by the Mods (and later apologized to) for making your post I don’t see the parallel. Yeah, I’m just a bit nonplussed about how she is seen as the hero of all things right and good and true and because I think she was a butthead in this instance I am denounced as a syncophant and she is held up as the paragon of virtue. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/254 "2006-02-03T15:53:35Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Yeah, I’m just a bit nonplussed about how she is seen as the hero of all things right and good and true and because I think she was a butthead in this instance I am denounced as a syncophant and she is held up as the paragon of virtue. I think it is important to repeat that Cindy did not intend to cause any sort of distruption. She was in D.C. for Woolsey’ s alternate State of the Union address and was given a ticket. She was not doing anything illegal. She simply took her jacket off. And whatever else you may say or think about them , both Cindy and Ann Wright work very hard on the behalf of the American soldier. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/255 "2006-02-03T15:55:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, I’m just a bit nonplussed about how she is seen as the hero of all things right and good and true and because I think she was a butthead in this instance I am denounced as a syncophant and she is held up as the paragon of virtue. FWIW, I don’t hold her up as a paragon of virtue nor do I see you as a sycophant. But I do think hauling her off and charging her was wrong. I suspect she was even truthful about what she said, because if she _had_ intended for the shirt to be seen, and I were her, I woulda mentioned it. I wouldn’t have done it myself, but I’m not her – she’s a protestor trying to make a point by n onviolent means, and this is precisely how they do that sort of thing. They then generally acknowledge what they’ve done and why. So I think she was caught by surprise , at least this time. But it would be perfectly in character for her to have done it deliberately. And don’t think she’s a fool, a tool, or deluded for doing so, nor is it illegal. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/256 "2006-02-03T16:04:13Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Yeah, I’m just a bit nonplussed about how she is seen as the hero of all things right and good and true and because I think she was a butthead in this instance I am denounced as a syncophant and she is held up as the paragon of virtue. You stated in the OP(I realise the report was wrong but it’s your OP) that she unfolded a banner and activly caused a disturbance only to be corrected numerous times that this description was wrong. Did you change you stance at all? Did you fuck. Now you’re banging on about potential disruptions and things that didn’t happen. IMO it looks like you just don’t like her and are looking for anything to criticise her about. The so called reason for the OP has been shot down and completely be shown to be incorrect and yet you are still here. That’s why it’s 6+ pages long. You won’t back down or admit you were misinformed and incorrect in your OP. You’d be better served asking for this to be closed and just opening up a “I hate CS” thread it would at least be honest. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/257 "2006-02-03T16:11:39Z")
In fairness, the news sources originally reported a banner (at the time of the OP) and that has been debunked without complaint. I haven’t seen anyone insist that she did indeed have a banner. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/258 "2006-02-03T16:25:45Z")
That’s not what I’m talking about. I mean this thread has basically gone like this - She’s a bitch she did x - No she did not do x - Well she’s still a bitch cause she did y - She didn’t do y either - She’s still a bitch coz she could have done z - How do you know she was going to do z - She’s a bitch. There’s lots of other BS in this thread but the above is what has driven in. In short **Airman** doesn’t like or agree with CS and no matter what is said in this thread that will not change. The banner/t-shirt/whatever is just something for him to hang it on. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/259 "2006-02-03T16:28:07Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > And you seem to ignore the fact that one of the t-shirt wearers has an arrest record for similiar activity, and the other one (almost certainly) does not. Can you guess which one? And YOU (as well as a few other posters along the way) seem to ignore the fact that in the United States of America, we arrest people for being in violation of the law _now_ - not on the basis of what they’ve done in the past, or what the authorities think they might do in the future. > [@](#): > > statements like: > > “Bah. If she had worn a shirt saying “God Bless President Bush” she would have been left alone.” are demonstrably false. If such statements are demonstrably false, demonstrate away. But you might check my posts 197 and 198 first. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/260 "2006-02-03T16:36:07Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > I think it is important to repeat that Cindy did not intend to cause any sort of distruption. And I would add that even that is beside the point. She hadn’t caused a disruption _yet_. We don’t arrest people because they carry in them the potential of committing a crime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454.md?page=14)