# Cindy Sheehan is a toolbag. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454 "2006-02-01T02:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/301 "2006-02-05T17:46:07Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > To answer your assertion to **Sam** , she was ejected at the same time as Sheehan, for supporting the troops, but the affront to her rights has hardly raised a whimper here . Oh bullshit. Read the thread again. Plenty of us have said that it was outrageous for either woman to be hassled, but the fact is that Sheehan (who was ALSO supporting the troops, by the way) was the only one who got arrested. I also haven’t heard either one of the Youngs expressing any outrage that Cindy Sheehan was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/302 "2006-02-05T17:49:00Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Could it be because Young did not resist ? Young DID resist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/303 "2006-02-05T18:01:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Young DID resist. Oh…and Cindy Sheehan did NOT resist. As soon as she took off her overshirt, she was dragged out of her seat by the cop and hauled forcibly out of the gallery. Sheehan has said that she would have been happy to put her overshirt back on if she had been asked, but she wasn’t. Beverly Young, on the other hand, has admitted that she argued with security, used “colorful language” and called one of them an “idiot.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/304 "2006-02-05T18:27:08Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > To answer your assertion to **Sam** , she was ejected at the same time as Sheehan, for supporting the troops, but the affront to her rights has hardly raised a whimper here . Yeah, right. Except for all the people in this thread who have made it quite clear that they believe that neither woman should have been asked to leave. > [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Could it be because Young did not resist? Have you actually even read any of the discussion of these incidents in the media? There is no record of Sheehan resisting at all, and the fact that she was released without charges and with an apology suggests that she did absolutely nothing wrong at all. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/305 "2006-02-05T19:14:59Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > To answer your assertion to **Sam** , she was ejected at the same time as Sheehan… That’s not true: > [@](#): > > [_re_ Young ejection](http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1567217) > she wasn’t actually asked to leave until some 45 minutes of the speech had elapsed. That’s long enough for the capitol police to have realized that they fucked up, and needed to do some ass covering. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/306 "2006-02-05T19:38:26Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yeah, right. > > There is no record of Sheehan resisting at all, and the fact that she was released without charges and with an apology suggests that she did absolutely nothing wrong at all. Bullshit. It has been widely reported that Sheehan was asked to cover up but she just ignored the request. Young didn’t even get that option. She was jusked asked to leave and she complied. She may have gotten verbally abusive but she was cooperative in leaving. Thje fact that there is an apology for both merely reflects political pragmatism, nothing more. No one in public life wants to be on the side of supporting the arrest of a bereaved mother. Beverly is merely the fortunate recipient of sentiment to be fair to all. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/307 "2006-02-05T19:43:06Z")
It seems clear to me what happened: People panicked when they saw that Sheehan had been invited in, because she has a history of stunting. So they were just hoping she’d give them a reason to get her out of there before she did something like start shouting at the President in the middle of his speech. When she took her jacket off, they went, “Ha! We got something.” Then they dragged her out. Some time later, someone said, “Uh, we’re in deep shit for doing this - especially since that nice Republican lady over there ALSO has a slogan on her T-shirt”. So they got the other woman out so they could claim there was no discrimination. I’m sure they got Sheehan out of there for the simple reason that she was Cindy Sheehan. Not because of her views, but because of what they probably saw as a high likelihood that she would turn the State of the Union speech into a fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/308 "2006-02-05T20:39:47Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Bullshit. It has been widely reported that Sheehan was asked to cover up but she just ignored the request. Young didn’t even get that option. She was jusked asked to leave and she complied. She may have gotten verbally abusive but she was cooperative in leaving. The fact that something is “widely reported” does not mean it’s always true. Hell, early in the piece some news outlets were reporting that Sheehan had attempted to unfurl a banner, ferchissakes. According to [Sheehan herself](http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/editorial/13795467.htm), she was never asked to cover up, something you would also know if you’d bothered to actually read this thread properly: > [@](#): > > My ticket was in the fifth gallery, front row. An officer – who a few minutes later would arrest me – helped me to my seat. I sat down and was warm from climbing three flights of stairs, so I unzipped my jacket. The officer saw my shirt and yelled, “Protester!” He hauled me out of my seat and shoved me up the stairs. > > The officer ran, pulling me with him, to an elevator, yelling at everyone to move out of the way. He handcuffed me as we rode down and took me outside to await a squad car. > > Despite what was said in several reports, I was never asked to change the shirt or zip up my jacket. If I had been asked to do those things, I would have and expressed concerns about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. > > I was roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for “unlawful conduct.” The reports about my being “vocal,” attributed to the police, are also untrue. Furthermore, while i think that **Sam Stone** ’s reasoning behind why things happened as they did is pretty sound, it is also worth pointing out that Sheehan herself specifically claims that she had no intention of disrupting the proceedings: > [@](#): > > Sure, I’m outspoken and don’t shy away from protesting. But that wasn’t my plan. Before the speech, I had been given a ticket by Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., who has worked to press Congress to bring the troops home. > > At first I didn’t want to go, and I gave the ticket to someone who gave it back. I would not have been disruptive out of respect for Lynn and the other members of Congress I admire. Of course, it’s impossible for any of us to be sure that this was what she really had in mind at the time, but the explanation is perfectly plausible. If you’re invited to an occasion like this by a member of Congress, then it would be pretty poor form to embarrass your host by doing something untoward. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/309 "2006-02-05T20:47:55Z")
Why is this thread still alive?! Seven pages, and all we’ve established is that **Airman Doors, USAF** is a toolbag. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/310 "2006-02-05T21:36:10Z")
A couple of things: > [@](#): > > \*\* Sam Stone\*\*- I wonder how all of you would be reacting if Cindy Sheehan strongly supported the war, and was travelling the country giving speeches in favor of the war, engaging in anti-protests against MoveOn and other groups, writing Op-Eds in support of the war, etc. Let’s stipulate that she was doing this because she wanted the U.S. to win because she’s wracked with grief over the death of her son and believes that winning the war will at least mean he didn’t die pointlessly. At Camp Casey in D.C., a very angry couple whose son had died in the war demanded his photo be removed from a memorial to the fallen troops. Their wishes were honored and they were given scissors to cut his picture out. Regretfully, they had to be asked not to deface the other pictures. At all times, they were treated with respect. At Crawford, a father who supported the war for exactly the reasons you state above set up in the ditch opposite CCI. At no time where any of the banners or signs there disturbed-unlike the incident where the crosses where mowed down by an irate pro war protestor. At the entrance of both CCI and CCI, a posted sign requested that the pro war crowd be treated with respect and that no one engage in any sort of hostility-verbal or otherwise. No “Fuck the pro War people” slogans or banner were held up Once again, this was a sharp contrast to the manner in which the pro-war crowd reacted. My personal favorite was the sign that said, "Repent you treasonous Scum”. Of course, the 17 year posing in front of the Ten Commandments that told the reporter that he wished he could “Assassinate that bitch, Shaheen” is pretty good too. So yeah, I said that, at least among the folks at CC, there is great respect for the opposing view-especially when a Goldstar Family or a veteran expresses it. > [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** - It seems clear to me what happened: People panicked when they saw that Sheehan had been invited in, because she has a history of stunting. So they were just hoping she’d give them a reason to get her out of there before she did something like start shouting at the President in the middle of his speech. If you read the letter sent out by Cindy, she clearly states that she had no intention of disrupting the speech out of respect for Woolsey. I’m curious as to how many examples you can cite of Cindy disrupting a speech by a politician. My question is dead serious, as you seem to believe that there is a precedent for this behavior. Maybe you’re confusing her with Diane Wilson who did interrupt Cheney’s speech in Houston. > [@](#): > > **The Flying Dutchman** -Bullshit. It has been widely reported that Sheehan was asked to cover up but she just ignored the request. Really? Once again I’d like to see some cites, please. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/311 "2006-02-05T21:37:53Z")
I wonder what **Sam** would have to say if it were his country men being sent away to die for a pointless war. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/312 "2006-02-05T22:44:37Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Could it be because Young did not resist ? Dunno whether you mean ‘resisting arrest’ in the legal sense (which neither did, I’m reasonably sure), or some lesser definition of resistance, but Young was the one who called the officers “idiots” who removed her. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/313 "2006-02-05T22:51:41Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I wonder what **Sam** would have to say if it were his country men being sent away to die for a pointless war. Why don’t you piss off with this nonsense? There are 2000 Canadians on their way to Afghanistan. Something I heartily support. I also supported Canada being part of the coalition in the Iraq war. Canadians have been killed by American friendly fire. I have friends in the Canadian military, and I understand that they could be killed. What’s next? The chickenhawk argument? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/314 "2006-02-05T22:53:24Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > What’s next? The chickenhawk argument? Awww…someone’s feeling guilty. Don’t worry, **Sam** , other people will keep you safe. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/315 "2006-02-05T23:34:55Z")
**Sam** , I’m still respectfully waiting for you to list incidents of the other speeches Cindy has deliberately disrupted. Your argument as to why she was removed appears to me to be based on the premise that this is common practice for her. So how may times has she interrupted a speech? I’m not being snarky-I’m being sincere. I googled Shaheen disrupts speech but came up with nada. But I’m on dial up so my searching capabilities are somewhat limited by by download speed. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/316 "2006-02-05T23:46:38Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > **Sam** , I’m still respectfully waiting for you to list incidents of the other speeches Cindy has deliberately disrupted. > Your argument as to why she was removed appears to me to be based on the premise that this is common practice for her. > So how may times has she interrupted a speech? > I’m not being snarky-I’m being sincere. > I googled Shaheen disrupts speech but came up with nada. > But I’m on dial up so my searching capabilities are somewhat limited by by download speed. I never claimed that she had disrupted any speeches. However, she’s been involved in all kinds of protests, and she had just come back from Venezuela where she praised Hugo Chavez for attacking America. It’s not a great stretch to believe that she might have tried to disrupt a State of the Union Speech. As for her claim that she wasn’t going to, that’s fine but I doubt the security people in question knew that, or would necessarily have believed it before the fact. You also seem to think that I’m saying this was okay. I’m simply saying that this was probably what happened. The people in charge of making sure the State of the Union speech goes off successfully saw her on the guest list and had a ‘holy shit!’ moment. They were looking for an excuse to get her out of there, and found one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/317 "2006-02-05T23:50:59Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > You also seem to think that I’m saying this was okay. I’m simply saying that this was probably what happened. The people in charge of making sure the State of the Union speech goes off successfully saw her on the guest list and had a ‘holy shit!’ moment. They were looking for an excuse to get her out of there, and found one. You don’t arrest people because of what they MIGHT do, you arrest them on evidence that they ARE doing something, or planning it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/318 "2006-02-05T23:53:18Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I never claimed that she had disrupted any speeches. However, she’s been involved in all kinds of protests, and she had just come back from Venezuela where she praised Hugo Chavez for attacking America. It’s not a great stretch to believe that she might have tried to disrupt a State of the Union Speech. As for her claim that she wasn’t going to, that’s fine but I doubt the security people in question knew that, or would necessarily have believed it before the fact. > > You also seem to think that I’m saying this was okay. I’m simply saying that this was probably what happened. The people in charge of making sure the State of the Union speech goes off successfully saw her on the guest list and had a ‘holy shit!’ moment. They were looking for an excuse to get her out of there, and found one. OK, so you’re saying that’s probably what happened, and it so, it was wrong for them to do that? Good to see you coming around, **Sam**. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/319 "2006-02-06T00:02:31Z")
I honestly don’t know. You all seem to be approaching this from a rights standpoint, but I’m not sure that’s valid. This is a controlled event, by invitation only. No one has a ‘right’ to be there. You can be booted out of an event for not matching the dress code, or for violating whatever arbitrary rules the event planners set up. I suspect someone over-reacted. On the other hand, if they had done nothing and then she had jumped up in the middle of the speech shouting, “Bush is a murderer!”, it would have made worldwide headlines and people probably would have lost their jobs. So I have some sympathy for them. But arresting her and holding her? That’s way over the line. I suspect the proper thing to do would have been to calmly walk over and tell her that she had to keep her jacket on or be escorted out, and perhaps the opportunity could have been used to politely remind her that she was there as a guest and to please refrain from attempting to bring attention to herself. Frankly, I think the real mistake here was on the part of the member of Congress who invited her. It was inappropriate to put a lightning-rod like her in that situation, on that night. It was a partisan stunt, and it probably didn’t help the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/320 "2006-02-06T00:07:30Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Frankly, I think the real mistake here was on the part of the member of Congress who invited her. It was inappropriate to put a lightning-rod like her in that situation, on that night. It was a partisan stunt, and it probably didn’t help the Democrats. And how was it different from Bush himself parading the family of a dead servicemen in order to further his agenda? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454.md?page=17)