# Cindy Sheehan is a toolbag. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454 "2006-02-01T02:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/381 "2006-02-07T21:07:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No, I’m still waiting for the examples. Got any? Well, after a few seconds, Google spit out [this](http://rwor.org/a/1208/catic.htm) little gem from Mike Van Winkle, spokesman for the California Terrorism Intelligence Center\* (_snerk_… like military intelligence…). Anyway. > [@](#): > > CATIC spokesman Mike Van Winkle told the Oakland Tribune, “You can make an easy kind of a link that, if you have a protest group protesting a war where the cause that’s being fought against is international terrorism, you might have terrorism at that (protest). You can almost argue that a protest against that is a terrorist act.” > > In other words, according to an official CATIC spokesperson, ANY protest that challenges the government’s “war on terrorism” is to be considered a terrorist act. I can keep looking, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/382 "2006-02-07T21:08:34Z")
RTF: Even though you didn’t offer any examples, I’ll throw you two Nazi comparisons: > [@](#): > > [Sen. Byrd’s Hitler Comments Draw Fire](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/03/03/sen_byrds_hitler_comments_draw_fire?mode=PF) > > Sen. Robert Byrd on Tuesday compared Republican threats to change Senate rules to outlaw procedural hurdles that have blocked 10 of President Bush’s judicial candidates to Hitler jamming legislation through the German Reichstag. > > “Hitler never abandoned the cloak of legality; he recognized the enormous psychological value of having the law on his side,” the Democrat from West Virginia said. “Instead, he turned the law inside out and made illegality legal.” > [@](#): > > [Gore rips Bush on al Qaeda-Saddam link](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/24/gore.bush/) > > Gore said media who challenge Bush and Cheney’s claims of a link are intimidated by the administration. > > “The administration works closely with a network of rapid-response digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for undermining support for our troops,” Gore said. The term “Brown Shirts” refers to Nazi supporters in the 1930s and '40s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/383 "2006-02-07T21:14:18Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Well, after a few seconds, Google spit out [this](http://rwor.org/a/1208/catic.htm) little gem from Mike Van Winkle, spokesman for the California Terrorism Intelligence Center\* (_snerk_… like military intelligence…). Anyway. > I can keep looking, if you like. I thought we were talking about elected officials talking about other elected officials. If not, then this is just silly, because of course there are pundits or others out there saying outrageous things about their political opponents. And, frankly, I’m sure if you look hard enought you will find some elected Republcans doing just what \*\*RTF \*\*said. My response is still, so what? Both sides have their bomb throwers, and neither side relegates those bomb throwers to the netherworld of poltical limbo. Is the point that politicians play dirty? Well, shocker!!! Stop the presses!!! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/384 "2006-02-07T21:19:17Z")
Let’s relook at the statement that started this little hijack: > [@RTF](#): > > Mainstream Republicans get away with lumping the Democratic Party with al-Qaeda, and that puts them within the mainstream of their party’s political discourse in the U.S., without any political consequences. So, let’s clarify. By “Mainstream Republicans” do we mean Ann Coulter? Because she ain’t loony, she’s evil. She knows exaclty what she’s doing. But if we mean Mainstream Repulbican Politicians, I’d still like to see one that lump the Democratic Party (ie, the whole thing) in with al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/385 "2006-02-07T21:31:20Z")
aren’t you discounting Karl Rove and John Ashcroft? Traitors in The War Against Terrorists certainly is as linked to Al Q as “Brown shirt” tactics is to Nazis ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/386 "2006-02-07T21:33:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I thought we were talking about elected officials talking about other elected officials. If not, then this is just silly, because of course there are pundits or others out there saying outrageous things about their political opponents. And, frankly, I’m sure if you look hard enought you will find some elected Republcans doing just what \*\*RTF \*\*said. My response is still, so what? Both sides have their bomb throwers, and neither side relegates those bomb throwers to the netherworld of poltical limbo. Is the point that politicians play dirty? Well, shocker!!! Stop the presses!!! In the first place, this wasn’t a pundit. It was a statement made by a spokesperson of an agency which enforces anti-terrorist laws in California, and was appointed by the governor with the endorsement of the AG of the US. In the second: perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by “mainstream.” I figured you meant average-SUV-drivin-football-watchin-beer-drinkin-mainstream-Joe Blow Republican. But while we’re at it…where do you think those misconceptions _come from_, John? You think they just descend out of the blue and are held only by wing nuts who polish their guns every night? There’s a derision for anyone who dares speak out, and it’s shared by most Republicans, you among them, that anyone who dares speak out is a loony, is only hurting Dem’s chances of accomplishing anything, and if we were really smart and swallowed shit like good little boys and girls, we might be allowed to sit at the big table. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/387 "2006-02-07T22:04:29Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > In the first place, this wasn’t a pundit. It was a statement made by a spokesperson of an agency which enforces anti-terrorist laws in California, and was appointed by the governor with the endorsement of the AG of the US. I’m still waiting for \*\*RTF \*\*to clarify what he meant. I meant elected officials. > [@](#): > > In the second: perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by “mainstream.” I figured you meant average-SUV-drivin-football-watchin-beer-drinkin-mainstream-Joe Blow Republican. But while we’re at it…where do you think those misconceptions _come from_, John? You think they just descend out of the blue and are held only by wing nuts who polish their guns every night? Wow… you’re going on about misconceptions and you just paint Republicans as Joe-sixpack. Looks like you’re the wing-nut here! > [@](#): > > There’s a derision for anyone who dares speak out, and it’s shared by most Republicans, you among them, that anyone who dares speak out is a loony, is only hurting Dem’s chances of accomplishing anything, and if we were really smart and swallowed shit like good little boys and girls, we might be allowed to sit at the big table. I’ve only called Sheehan a loon, and yet you extrapolate that to “anyone who dares speak out”. You’re just blowing shit out of your ass now. If you have an actual argument to make, make it. But you’re making my point for me. It’s always the mean ol’ Republican’s fault. Fuck that. Let the Democrats stand up for what they believe in. If they can’t do it, then they don’t deserve to be in positions of power. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/388 "2006-02-07T22:11:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Wow… you’re going on about misconceptions and you just paint Republicans as Joe-sixpack. Looks like you’re the wing-nut here! Oh, good. At least you’re not tapdancing anymore. > [@](#): > > I’ve only called Sheehan a loon, and yet you extrapolate that to “anyone who dares speak out”. You’re just blowing shit out of your ass now. If you have an actual argument to make, make it. But you’re making my point for me. It’s always the mean ol’ Republican’s fault. Fuck that. Let the Democrats stand up for what they believe in. If they can’t do it, then they don’t deserve to be in positions of power. That’s my point. We’re not talking about “being in positions of power.” We’re talking about acknowledging the trampling of our constitutional rights. Tell me, would the entire Republican party grind to a stop if you just once admitted the Chimp in Charge or for that matter _any_ of your party’s elected officials did something wrong? Would Republican values cease to be? Why can’t you just admit it’s bullshit? I promise, it won’t hurt. You won’t even be branded a _shudder_ moderate or anything. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/389 "2006-02-07T22:21:08Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > That’s my point. We’re not talking about “being in positions of power.” We’re talking about acknowledging the trampling of our constitutional rights. Tell me, would the entire Republican party grind to a stop if you just once admitted the Chimp in Charge or for that matter _any_ of your party’s elected officials did something wrong? Would Republican values cease to be? Why can’t you just admit it’s bullshit? I promise, it won’t hurt. You won’t even be branded a _shudder_ moderate or anything. WEll, ignoring your _ad hominem_ about the chimp, what makes you think I’ve never said Bush did anything wrong? You’re confusing me with someone else. I didn’t even vote for Bush in the last election. You want a list of things Bush has done wrong? Save me the trouble and ask for a list of things he’s done right-- it’ll be a lot shorter. Why do you find it so hard to comprehend that a person can think Sheehan is nutty but not necessarily suport Bush? There’s a lot of ground inbetween. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/390 "2006-02-07T22:33:56Z")
You know **John Mace**. I have no problems with you not supporting Cindy Shaheen’s politics or protests. I don’t think that makes you a diehard Bush supporter by any means. What I do object to is your branding her ‘loony’ or ‘nutty’, without ever coming up with any evidence of her lunacy. And calling Bush a terrorist is not evidence of anything but her deeply held conviction that he has invaded a foriegn country without cause or reason, leading to the death and destruction of both Iraqs and Americans. By his own definition of terrorism, Bush fits the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/391 "2006-02-07T22:40:06Z")
I don’t. I just wanted you to acknowledge that list of quotes **RTFirefly** posted before the dick measuring started over yet another minor detail in someone’s argument that someone else intentionally misconstrued.\* And as I said before, plenty of politicians use that tactic; it’s hardly new. Inferrence that Sen. McCain had an interracial child out of wedlock wasn’t the first example, and character assassination works so much better than actually sticking to facts. That attitude is passed down to constituents. I don’t think Cindy Sheehan is much more than a grieving mom who wants the world to share her anger and outrage and pain. She’s taking it a step further than most, but if it gets the message across, then good on her. Not so much a loony as someone who refuses to give up. Disagreeing with her methods doesn’t make her nuts. From all the interviews I’ve seen, she’s seemed rational. Just determined. \*This is not to infer that _you or anyone else did that._ Merely an observation on tactics used to hijack in general. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/392 "2006-02-07T23:42:38Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > You know **John Mace**. I have no problems with you not supporting Cindy Shaheen’s politics or protests. > I don’t think that makes you a diehard Bush supporter by any means. Considering I didn’t vote for him, it would pretty hard for me to be one. > [@](#): > > What I do object to is your branding her ‘loony’ or ‘nutty’, without ever coming up with any evidence of her lunacy. No, I’ve given two pieces of evidence. The fact that your reject the evidence doesn’t mean I have given any. The two pieces or evidence are her calling Bush the biggest terrorist in the world, and her threat to run against Feinstein. > [@](#): > > And calling Bush a terrorist is not evidence of anything but her deeply held conviction that he has invaded a foriegn country without cause or reason, leading to the death and destruction of both Iraqs and Americans. > By his own definition of terrorism, Bush fits the bill. First of all, can we have a cite for what Bush’s defintion of terrorism is? And, like I’ve said before, we’ve had plenty of GD threads about what terrorism is. It’s about the deliberate targetting of civilians in order to accomplish political goals. If you’re going to call Bush a terrorist, then is Bill Clinton a terrorist because he bombed Serbia? After all, in that bombing campagin we bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Not only did innocent civilians die, we had no reason to bomb that embassy. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/393 "2006-02-08T02:10:12Z")
I’m still waiting to hear a reply from the rightwingnuts who said Sheehan should have been beat up and thrown down the stairs. How about a reply and some pretense at a line of reasoning for it? This whole Commies vs Nazis “thing” has been fun to watch, but still I want to hear from the “armchair commandos” and “heroes in momma’s basement” who think it would be cool to put a smackdown on “little ole ladies” loke Sheehan. Yeah, it’s all about freedom of speech for you guys, but not for someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/394 "2006-02-08T03:42:22Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m still waiting to hear a reply from the rightwingnuts who said Sheehan should have been beat up and thrown down the stairs. And who said that? Was it someone on this board? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/395 "2006-02-08T05:58:27Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m still waiting to hear a reply from the rightwingnuts who said Sheehan should have been beat up and thrown down the stairs. How about a reply and some pretense at a line of reasoning for it? This whole Commies vs Nazis “thing” has been fun to watch, but still I want to hear from the “armchair commandos” and “heroes in momma’s basement” who think it would be cool to put a smackdown on “little ole ladies” loke Sheehan. Yeah, it’s all about freedom of speech for you guys, but not for someone else. Who are you talking about? Who are these “you guys” of whom you speak? If it wasn’t someone on this board, you’ll be waiting a loooooong time for a reply, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/396 "2006-02-08T07:56:58Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > You know, I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but not now. > > [Anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan, a guest of Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-California, was arrested by Capitol Police when she unfolded an anti-war banner. A senior House official said Sheehan was seated in the House chamber. The official said she was taken for questioning for about an hour in a separate area of the House. No other details were immediately available.](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/bush.sotu/index.html?section=cnn_topstories) > > No matter how much they hate each other, the Democrats at least allow the President to speak without much interruption or ado. They are respectful of the significance of the Address. Mrs. Sheehan, alas, cannot. > > She is not part of the show. She was invited, probably to force Bush to look at her, but that wasn’t good enough. No, she had to try to grandstand and disrupt an important part of our government. > > Well, that’s not kosher with me. She’s a toolbag, and no matter how noble or worthwhile her cause may be, she is doing it a disservice by actions like these. That’s not even the worse of it. To add insult to injury, this woman praises Hugo Chavez and bashes our country on the world stage. Sheehan & Chavez: Politics makes strange bedfellows! How am I suppose to take her seriously when she has proven that she’s merely part of this fringe left-wing Harry Bellafonte mentality? I understand she is mourning the loss of her son, but lets not pretend here. She has a definite political agenda supported and paid for by fringe Left groups. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/397 "2006-02-08T13:47:08Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > And who said that? Was it someone on this board? Here it is, unless I was whooshed that is possible)… > [@silenus](#): > > Ah, hell. Just take her out back and beat the shit out of her with rubber hoses. > [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > Personally, I think it would have been great theatre if a few discrete security people had been waiting near her seat, and if she stood up during the President’s Address BAM! 50,000 volts of TAZER baby! > > Just watching her twitch and wail on the floor would have been priceless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/398 "2006-02-08T14:22:01Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Here it is, unless I was whooshed that is possible)… You done been whooshed, baby! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/399 "2006-02-08T16:43:15Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You done been whooshed, baby! 🙂 Damn. I feel so stupid. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454/400 "2006-02-08T17:10:49Z")
> [@JohnnyEnigma](#): > > That’s not even the worse of it. To add insult to injury, this woman praises Hugo Chavez and bashes our country on the world stage. Sheehan & Chavez: Politics makes strange bedfellows! OMG! She criticizes America? On the world stage, no less! String her up! > [@JohnnyEnigma](#): > > How am I suppose to take her seriously when she has proven that she’s merely part of this fringe left-wing Harry Bellafonte mentality? I understand she is mourning the loss of her son, but lets not pretend here. She has a definite political agenda supported and paid for by fringe Left groups. OMG! She has a political agenda? And it’s not conservative? String her up, i say! To tell you the truth, moron, whether you take her seriously or not is probably something that doesn’t weigh very heavily on her mind. People who imply that there’s something wrong with criticizing your country, and something wrong with taking an adversarial political position, don’t deserve to be taken seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan-is-a-toolbag/342454.md?page=21)