# Cindy Sheehan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262 "2005-08-16T13:48:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/201 "2005-08-19T10:01:41Z")
I’m sure everyone knows by now that Cindy Sheehan is leaving the protest, at least for a while, to care for her mother who has had a stroke. I’m remarking on this solely to hope for her mother’s recovery. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/202 "2005-08-19T10:49:43Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > **cosmodan, stochastic:** thank you both for your thoughtful, well-reasoned input, and for your respectful disagreement with my take on Cindy Sheehan’s actions. I do understand your positions, and find them reasonable and well-articualted. > > I’m not (nor have I) ascribed nefarious motives to her actions, just misguided ones. My Mom went slightly batty when I went to Gulf War I, and I had several long letters and a few telephone conversations to convince her that I was where I wanted to be, doing what I wanted to do, and that neither the Army nor Pres. Bush bore any blame or responsibility for anything that happened to me, and that if she respected me at all as a person, she would have to respect that position. > > I just come from the position that, if you respect your offspring’s grown, adult, life decisions and life choices, you should accept with the same equanimity as your offsping the consequences of those decisions and choices. I can understand and respect that. Some of my family freaked when my son went to Bosnia. Thank God he, and you made it home safe. I might add that I do believe Mrs. Sheehan has been used by those who oppose the war and GWB.For whatever reasons she chose to participate. I respect her adult choices as well. I see no moral difference between those who oppose the war useing Mrs. Sheehan and a 100 things that GWB has done. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/203 "2005-08-19T17:05:52Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > However, I think it is a mistake to get behind this women and assert that she has some kind of authority when she claims some neocon Pnac jewish cabal is behind the war. For what it’s worth–and I’m sure it will be worthless to True Believers such as yourself–Sheehan denies the anti-semitic sentimenst that the right-wing smear machine has attributed to her. > [@Cindy Sheehan](#): > > Another thing is that the Israel thing has not died. I did not say that my son died for Israel. I have never said it, I don’t think it, I don’t believe it. It is just another lie, smear tactic from the right. It needs to die right now. It’s not the truth. I stand by everything that I have said. But I will not stand by things that I haven’t said. I am not anti-Semitic. I am just anti-killing. George Bush is responsible for killing so many people, but nobody scrutinizes anything he says, especially leading up to the war. Since there is nothing to smear me about with the truth, they have to tell lies. A former friend who is anti-Israel and wants to use the spotlight on me to push his anti-Semitism is telling everyone who is listening that I believe that Casey died for Israel and has gone so far as to apparently doctor an email from me. People have to know that he doesn’t speak for me. ABC Nightline can’t confirm his email is real and therefore any reporting on it is irresponsible. That is not my issue. That is not my message and anyone who knows me knows it doesn’t sound like me. > **[Camp Casey, Day 12](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/camp-casey-day-12_b_5830)** > > Our candlelight vigil at Camp Casey was beautiful. There were hundreds of people here and we are hearing that hundreds of people were involved in vigils around the country. ---
**Author:** ![pace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c2a13f/32.png) [@pace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pace)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/204 "2005-08-19T17:13:23Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > What POS dirtbag radio show was that. Who are the hosts? i didn’t catch the host name, but it was station 740 at approximately 5 pm’ish. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/205 "2005-08-19T17:27:47Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > For what it’s worth–and I’m sure it will be worthless to True Believers such as yourself–Sheehan denies the anti-semitic sentimenst that the right-wing smear machine has attributed to her. Let’s just assume that that is true. What about the comments attributed to her by her leftist allies? [From remarks of Cindy Sheehan at a pro-Lynne Stewart rally earlier this year:](http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/Articles/Stewartrally.htm) > [@](#): > > What they’re saying, too, is like, it’s okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons. But Iran or Syria better not get nuclear weapons. It’s okay for the United States to have nuclear weapons. It’s okay for the countries that we say it’s okay for. We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now. It’s okay for them to have them, but Iran or Syria can’t have them. It’s okay for Israel to occupy Palestine, but it’s – yeah – and it’s okay for Iraq to occupy – I mean, for the United States to occupy Iraq, but it’s not okay for Syria to be in Lebanon. They’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up. We need a revolution and make it be peaceful and make it be loving and let’s just show them all the love we have for humanity because we want to stop the inhumane slaughter. [Cindy Sheehan at a Veterans for Peace rally:](http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/ferner090805.html) > [@](#): > > And the other thing I want him to tell me is ‘just what was the noble cause Casey died for?’ Was it freedom and democracy? Bullshit! He died for oil. He died to make your friends richer. He died to expand American imperialism in the Middle East. We’re not freer here, thanks to your PATRIOT Act. Iraq is not free. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you’ll stop the terrorism," she exclaimed. Cindy Sheehan has indeed been making plenty of comments about Israel. That’s surely her right, but she runs the risk then of people listening to this message and ignoring what she says is her main point. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/206 "2005-08-19T17:31:56Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > she runs the risk then of people listening to this message and ignoring what she says is her main point. As you’re doing right now? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/207 "2005-08-19T17:37:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As you’re doing right now? Spare me. If someone makes comments like this, they certainly can be debated, can’t they? Or do you fall into that “absolute moral authority” crowd who’d allow Cindy Sheehan to say anything she pleases without criticism? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/208 "2005-08-19T17:44:40Z")
No, I fall into that crowd that is trying to stick to the subject of her protest in Crawford, not irrelevant (but to some self-relieving) sidetracks. If the remaining justifications for leaving our people in Iraq are not a topic you wish to explore, you ought to try a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/209 "2005-08-19T17:46:20Z")
It is possible to mention Israel, and even criticize some of their actions or policies, without being anti-Semitic, isn’t it? Or is any criticism of Israel a _de facto_ anti-Semitic remark? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/210 "2005-08-19T17:55:13Z")
**Scylla** mentioned comments vaguely anti-semitic in tone. **minty green** stated that those comments couldn’t be conclusively attributed to her. There are comments that Mrs. Sheehan has made that carry a similar tone, and that absolutely can be attributed to her. They come from sites allied with her, and she has not disavowed them. They are, for better or worse, part of the whole Cindy Sheehan experience. And again, if you have a problem with these comments, take it up with Mrs. Sheehan. After all, it’s not smearing someone if they actually did the thing in question. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/211 "2005-08-19T18:41:48Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > What about the comments attributed to her by her leftist allies? Shrill and hyperbolic, but hardly anti-semitic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/212 "2005-08-19T18:49:41Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > And again, if you have a problem with these comments, take it up with Mrs. Sheehan. After all, it’s not smearing someone if they actually did the thing in question. It is, however, transparently diversionary. The issue isn’t Sheehan’s actions or motivations; she’s just another Jane Doe, really (which is the source of her power, of course). No, the issue is _Bush’s_ actions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/213 "2005-08-19T19:12:29Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > **minty green** stated that those comments couldn’t be conclusively attributed to her. Actually, what **minty green** stated was > [@minty green](#): > > Sheehan denies the anti-semitic sentimenst that the right-wing smear machine has attributed to her. which was followed by a quote from Mrs. Sheehan categorically denying that she had made some of the comments attributed to her. Mr. Moto, you have once again mischaracterized someone else’s statement, making it seem as if there is only doubt about the source, when in fact there is outright denial by Mrs. Sheehan. Your tactics in this thread have been to lie, mischaracterize, and to avoid discussing the issue of Iraq; instead you choose to attempt to discredit Mrs. Sheehan and anyone whom you see as one of her supporters. Are you perhaps a Halliburton stockholder or something? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/214 "2005-08-19T19:22:38Z")
Don’t fight that battle on my behalf. I thought his characterization of my post was fairly reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/215 "2005-08-19T19:23:43Z")
Snowboarder Bo: > [@](#): > > Are you perhaps a Halliburton stockholder or something? Now, now, Halliburton is politically connected and profiteering, but I don’t think it’s been dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/216 "2005-08-19T19:24:45Z")
I’m not, I’m fighting it on my behalf… I’m one the people who have found themselves on the receiving end of his false statements. With no apology or retraction, either, just a lame explanatory statement. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/217 "2005-08-19T19:35:11Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > What about the comments attributed to her by her leftist allies? What, guilt by association _again?_ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/218 "2005-08-19T21:00:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > Or is any criticism of Israel a de facto anti-Semitic remark? We debate that one regularly and it’s never pretty. At least our Israeli members don’t believe it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/219 "2005-08-19T22:20:37Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > For what it’s worth–and I’m sure it will be worthless to True Believers such as yourself–Sheehan denies the anti-semitic sentimenst that the right-wing smear machine has attributed to her. It’s ironic that you would engage in such immature slanders in the very same sentence in which your complain about smears. It is doubly so, considering how prickly you have shown yourself to be when mischaracterized. Your blatant hypocrisy aside, will you retract your slander, or are you only interested in truth when it serves you. The dig that you take at me is a mischaracterization, and by your own link attributing this to the right wing is clearly false. According to your own link Cindy is claiming that a specific anti-semite has altered this document for his own purposes and disseminated it with her name on it. This being the case, your accusing the “right wing smear machine” of attributing this to her is a blatant fasehood according to your own source. * * * I think it’s a fine thing that Cindy is disavowing these statements. That being said, I am skeptical of her story as the sentiments she claims in the document do closely echo statements that can be positively attributed to her. There are two problems with her story though concerning this email. First off, this is not what she told people the first time this email was brought to her attention: Sheehan recently originally claimed that a hacker infiltrated her email and produced the document. [http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/8/18/175654/041](http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/8/18/175654/041) Now her claim is that this Tersh guy is taking advantage of her notoriety to promote an anti-semitic agenda. Unfortunately Mr. Tersh originally posted the letter back in March on Usenet **long** before Sheehan became notorious. [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/bullyard/msg/7f523b1a73be1a36?hl=en](http://groups-beta.google.com/group/bullyard/msg/7f523b1a73be1a36?hl=en) So, I’m afraid this explanation doesn’t necessarily hold water, either. * * * That being said, I am happy to accept that Sheehan disavows the anti-semitic sentiments and make no further mention of them. There is much to abhor in her current statements though, and I wonder if people would be supporting her so strongl if they actually listened to what she was saying. I strongly support her for her loss. However, I abhor her sentiments. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262/220 "2005-08-19T22:38:42Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > There is much to abhor in her current statements though, and I wonder if people would be supporting her so strongl if they actually listened to what she was saying. Are you talking about the statements **Mr. Moto** linked to, or other statements? I’m not trying to score a point, I’m just curious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cindy-sheehan/317262.md?page=12)