# Circumcision debate - why the obsession? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619 "2004-06-28T22:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619/561 "2004-07-09T06:59:13Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Black, Indian, and American are all the same in their adjective and noun forms. Jew is not. “Jew” is a noun, so it requires an article in that context: “He is _a_ Jew.” The corresponding adjective is “Jewish” - “He is Jewish.” Just like “He is a man” vs. “He is male.” Thanks. Logical, and the same than in french in fact. Actually, I had already vaguely wondered if Jewish could be used when refering to a human. I’ve never been good at grammar, nor liked it. For instance in this case, when reading the post, I actually thought it could have something to do with the words being nouns or adjectives, but erroneously came to the conclusion that “american” in “he’s an american” and he’s american" where both nouns, since the structure of the sentence was exactly the same, apart from the article. Fortunately, this is only an issue when writing in a foreign language. In your own, you don’t have to wonder whether a word is a noun, an adjective to know how to use it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619/562 "2004-07-09T07:01:50Z")
> [@bughunter](#): > > You mean, like [this one](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040612/photos_od_afp/040612223046_6vsf86zu_photo0&e=2)? Err…What did they keep that??? And how did they come to the conclusion it had something to do with “erotica”? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619/563 "2004-07-09T13:51:12Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Err…What did they keep that??? And how did they come to the conclusion it had something to do with “erotica”? You never know why people hold onto things (and no, I’m not going to open that link – eeeeew!). I once spent a fascinating afternoon in the Cleveland police forensics lab, being shown around by one of the forensic chemists. When I commented that some of the paraphernalia around the office was not what one might find in normal offices (mostly evidence in cases – bongs and various drug paraphernalia, weapons, rape kits, that sort of thing), he chuckled and said he’d spare me a look into the refrigerator. Silly me, I asked what was in the refrigerator. Seems it was more case evidence – a prostitute had offered to trade oral sex for coke with her pimp, and took more coke that he thought was part of the deal, so he decided he should have more services rendered unto him than she had already agreed to. She thought otherwise, and well, without going into too many gory details, the result of their commercial dispute was in a jar in the fridge. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619/564 "2004-07-09T22:03:51Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Silly me, I asked what was in the refrigerator. Seems it was more case evidence – a prostitute had offered to trade oral sex for coke with her pimp, and took more coke that he thought was part of the deal, so he decided he should have more services rendered unto him than she had already agreed to. She thought otherwise, and well, without going into too many gory details, the result of their commercial dispute was in a jar in the fridge. Yes, but did she use anesthesia? 😃😛😃😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619/565 "2004-07-10T06:16:12Z")
> [@Zev](#): > > Circumcision _is_ essential to the practice of Judaism. If I gave you the wrong impression on that before, then I apologize. It is absolutely necessary – a person who does not have a circumcision is in violation of the second commandment. Just to muddy the waters further, the above belief is indeed held by most Jews, particulary Orthodox Jews such as **Zev** , but there is a small but growing minority of Jews who question or reject ritual circumcision. (Various [news articles](http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/news.htm), mostly about uncircumcised/anti-circumcision Jews in the US and Israel, go into more detail about this “movement”.) So there is another side to the issue of the religious necessity of Jewish circumcision. The majority view agrees with **Zev** and **Doc** that there is absolutely no getting around the commandment of neonatal circumcision for Jewish males, but there are certainly Jewish opposing viewpoints: > [@](#): > > Cultural pressure persuaded Hanoch Ben-Yami, a philosophy professor at Tel Aviv University, to circumcise his son after his birth three years ago even though he had previously attacked the practice in the Hebrew press. > His wife, he explains, worried about how society would treat him. But it turns out a neighborhood kindergarten had three uncircumcised boys last year and two now. > > “Nothing of the sort would have been imaginable five or 10 years ago, so we can see things have really changed,” he says. > Kasher thinks that’s only just the beginning, even though right now his movement is a fringe one. He foresees a time when the practice will be relegated to history books. “Eventually I think religious people, too, will stop doing it. But it will take years.” […] > > Ben-Yami counters that “Jewish identity can survive without circumcision, in fact, even better without it because more and more non-religious Jews have an aversion [to the religion] because of some of the things it contains, like circumcision Judaism has enough content in it to survive without circumcision.” > > “It’s something that came into Judaism from other religions and other tribal [customs] and it will pass from Judaism [too],” Udi says. > > Kasher of Af-Mila agrees. Though he acknowledges that his opinions are minority ones, he points to growing interest in his publication and awareness of the subject in the media, as well as the quick increase from four founding families in Kahal to its current size. > > “It’s going to vanish by itself, from the people,” he says. Personally, I disagree that circumcision will ever actually vanish from Judaism, but the evidence seems pretty strong that the small minority of Jewish males who don’t undergo infant circumcision, and of Jewish parents and religious leaders who don’t see a religious necessity for male circumcision, is increasing. So the scenario hypothesized by (I think) **clair** , in which “no-circumcision Judaism” becomes a recognized subset of Jewish thought and practice, is IMHO actually quite plausible. Naturally, there would be lots of fierce arguments about its legitimacy, but there always are with religious schisms. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619/566 "2004-07-10T10:21:03Z")
Why are NZ Jews able to wait for six months for a mohel? Are they not proper Jews? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-debate-why-the-obsession/252619.md?page=28)