# Circumcision Lawsuit **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443 "2003-01-23T15:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/21 "2003-01-23T22:51:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\* > Surely you jest. Would you pierce or tattoo your baby? That is a truly perplexing comparison. \*\* I’ve seen babies with pierced ears. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/22 "2003-01-23T23:02:45Z")
And I’ve seen babies with what appears to be a tattoo. (The “dot” on the forehead of Indians.) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/23 "2003-01-23T23:05:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheThill \* > \*\*I’m really not particularly interested in advocating silly lawsuits… > > …but how can you possibly compare not giving a child a dog to removing a healthy part of another person’s body?!? \*\* Just so there is no confusion, I was not comparing the two. I was using an extreme to point out that I think it would be a bad idea to allow children to sue their parents for failure to act in their best interests. ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/24 "2003-01-23T23:11:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > **I’ve seen babies with pierced ears.** Naw, I’m sure those were just the magnetic kind that looked like they were pierced. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/25 "2003-01-23T23:19:34Z")
By the way, I haven’t yet gone so far as to support outlawing male genital mutilation (although I suppose that weakens my position against female genital mutilation, doesn’t it). I do, however, try to inform people (when the subject comes up; I’m not a crusader) as to the reasons I think circumcision should not be the default and should be opted into, with full consent and knowledge. Also by the way, I just had a baby boy, and **they had to put a special color tape on his rolling crib so that the nurses didn’t cart him off for circumcision accidentally**. The default, of course, was no tape, and therefore circumcision, I suppose. Needless to say, the mere fact that they might do that without asking gave me proper incentive to accompany my new son EVERY TIME HE LEFT MY WIFE’S ROOM FOR THE THE NURSERY. Lost a little sleep, but it was worth it to prevent him from being cut without my consent. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/26 "2003-01-23T23:33:00Z")
Sheesh, a circumcision debate and nobody’s bothered to provide [a link to Cecil’s column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a940128.html)? (He says it’s a wash, overall.) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/27 "2003-01-23T23:35:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\*By the way, I haven’t yet gone so far as to support outlawing male genital mutilation (although I suppose that weakens my position against female genital mutilation, doesn’t it). \*\* The two are hardly comparable. I don’t belive a circumcision has any real medical benefits but I also don’t think it causes harm in the long run. Female genital mutilation on the other hand does cause long term harm. Marc ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/28 "2003-01-23T23:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **[Cecil] says it’s a wash, overall.** Then why do it? ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/29 "2003-01-23T23:50:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > **The two are hardly comparable. I don’t belive a circumcision has any real medical benefits but I also don’t think it causes harm in the long run. Female genital mutilation on the other hand…** Two friends I know would disagree with you, especially the one who’s son may have to have reconstructive surgery to restore normal penile abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/30 "2003-01-23T23:53:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*I’ve never seen a baby circumcised, but I’ve witnessed one getting shots. Does the baby have a much different reaction? If you can’t tell the difference, should we assume that circumcision hurts about the same as a shot? > > Second, is there any scientific evidence that sexual sensation is affected that much? Or at all? \*\* I’ve seen a baby get circumcised. My son. And he didn’t even whimper. That’s not the case for some, I’m sure, but he was fine. As for diminished sexual sensation, if you can have an orgasm, I would think that’s ample evidence that there’s PLENTY of sensation. ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/31 "2003-01-23T23:56:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **I’ve seen a baby get circumcised. My son. And he didn’t even whimper.** They used anesthetic, I presume? No irritability for even a day or two after the fact? Yours is truly an extraordinary case then, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/32 "2003-01-24T00:00:21Z")
They used anesthetic, yes. And he had very mild discomfort on occasion, but truthfully, with no exaggeration, he’s in more considerably more pain teething right now than he was when he was circumsized. He slept through the procedure and smiled at me when he woke up. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/33 "2003-01-24T00:01:32Z")
Although I did not say that I would pierce or tattoo a child (as implied) I was making the comparison that we do some pretty wacky things that cause pain yet do not do any harm. Of course tattooing and piercing children is done in other cultures, when I get home tonight (at work) I’ll be sure to shoot off some cites if anyone is interested. I did a quick google scan and found [Body art](http://www.mala.bc.ca/~soules/CMC290/zine2000/marg/) regarding youth and tattooing and piercing . I don’t doubt many cultures do a lot of horrible and mundane things to their children. Sorry I wasn’t clear on my argument, new to the GD threads…I keep kicking myself for leaving openings in my arguments for you guys to pick on. 😃 I can’t see how circumcision would control masturbation (didn’t work on me!) but I don’t see anything wrong with cecil’s numbers in his column (out of 60,000 penile cancer instances, only 10? were circumcised). Can anyone dispute that? ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/34 "2003-01-24T00:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **I’ve seen a baby get circumcised. My son. And he didn’t even whimper. That’s not the case for some, I’m sure, but he was fine.** Researchers found circumcision so traumatic that they ended the study early rather than subject any more infants to the operation without anesthesia. Those infants circumcised without anesthesia experienced not only severe pain, but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing. The findings were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Up to 96% of infants in some areas of the United States receive no anesthesia during circumcision. No anesthetic currently in use for circumcisions is effective during the most painful parts of the procedure. Lander, J. et al., “Comparison of Ring Block, Dorsal Penile Nerve Block, and Topical Anesthesia for Neonatal Circumcision,” JAMA 278 (1997): 2157–2162. > [@](#): > > \*\*As for diminished sexual sensation, if you can have an orgasm, I would think that’s ample evidence that there’s PLENTY of sensation. \*\* Some studies indicate that an increased probability of impotence is possible. (Sorry, no cite here, just memory, so feel free to ignore if you wish.) Obviously, that is a side effect not experienced by most. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/35 "2003-01-24T00:17:55Z")
> [@](#): > > but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing According to cecil he listed a 0.2-0.6 % chance of complications from circumcisions. I have never heard of any death to a child related to circumcision (can anyone find any cites?). ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/36 "2003-01-24T00:25:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\*Those infants circumcised without anesthesia experienced not only severe pain, but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing. \*\* I know this is GD, but I have to say it anyway. I could make you choke and have trouble breathing too if I kicked you in the junk. That’s more or less what it’s equivalent to, it would seem. Babies recover and they’re fine. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/37 "2003-01-24T00:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\*Two friends I know would disagree with you, especially the one who’s son may have to have reconstructive surgery to restore normal penile abilities. \*\* I’m sure we can find horror stories about ear piercings and tattoos as well. In general there are very few complications that arise from circumcision. Marc ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/38 "2003-01-24T00:38:27Z")
Um, stupid question: Why is diminished sexual sensation an issue at all when the child in question is two years old? ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/39 "2003-01-24T00:39:27Z")
Um, stupid question: Why is diminished sexual sensation an issue at all when the child in question is six years old? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443/40 "2003-01-24T00:40:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*And I’ve seen babies with what appears to be a tattoo. (The “dot” on the forehead of Indians.) \*\* The tika/bindi is not a tattoo, commonly it is either made from some sort of paste or is a sticker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/circumcision-lawsuit/150443.md?page=3)