# Cities/Countries whose Native Names are Different from English Names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953 "2005-11-27T20:48:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/1 "2005-11-27T20:48:00Z")
I’m looking for cities and countries whose names, in the local labguage, are significantly different from what we call them in America. Obvious example: Germany/Deutchland, Finland/Suomi, Cologne/Koln, Florence/Firenze. Any good examples from the Arabic-speaking world? I mean, do Egyptians use the name “Alexandria,” or do they call their town something else in Arabic? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/2 "2005-11-27T20:57:54Z")
I wouldn’t include Cologne or Florence in this list. Both Cologne and Köln are derived directly from Latin _Colonia_, and so are Florence and Firenze (_Florentium_, IIRC). Those are not cases of fundamentally different names, rather slightly different pronunciation. Alexandria is Al-Iskandariyyah in Arabic (or the transcription of its Arabic name into our Latin alphabet); it goes back directly to its ancient name, derived from the city’S founder Alexander the Great. Jerusalem (Yerushalayim in Hebrew, al-Quds “the Holy one” in Arabic) might be mentioned here. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/3 "2005-11-27T21:18:33Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Jerusalem (Yerushalayim in Hebrew, al-Quds “the Holy one” in Arabic) might be mentioned here. Nah, not really. Lots of “J”-s in the transcription of Hebrew words were carried over from Latin, where they (presumably) had the proper “Y” sound; so “Jerusalem” is really just a very slight corruption of _Yerushalem_, which is the original name of the city (the ancient Caananite name, of which _Yerushalayyim_ is a slight “Hebrification” – both pronounciations appear in the Old Testament) _Al-Quds_ is just a completely different name given, much later, by the Arabs (just as the Romans tried to rename it _Ilia Capitolina_), and so is basicly irrelevant to this discussion. If, however, you’re looking for an English name that is nothing like the original – Arabic in this case – look no further than **Egypt** , which is _Mizrayim_ in Hebrew, and something very similar (can’t remember the exact pronounciation) in Arabic. Also, just because nobody has mentioned it yet, **Hellas** (or “Ellas”?) doesn’t sound very much like “Greece” ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/4 "2005-11-27T21:19:58Z")
Greece is Ellas in Greek (well, that’s the Romanized version of the word at least.) This comes through in English when we call thing “Hellenic.” ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/5 "2005-11-27T21:33:10Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > Nah, not really. Lots of “J”-s in the transcription of Hebrew > _Al-Quds_ is just a completely different name given, much later, by the Arabs (just as the Romans tried to rename it _Ilia Capitolina_), and so is basicly irrelevant to this discussion. Maybe al-Quds is much younger as a name, but it seems to be a common name for the city among speakers of Arabic, and so it’s far from being irrelevant here - the OP had asked about cities whose local name differs substantially from the common English name, and al-Quds/Jersualem exactly fits that. The OP didn’t include impose any conditions on how long the name has to have been used, or where it came from. [sub]And just one slight nitpick: It was Aelia Capitlina, not Ilia.[/sub] Other places that come to mind include Wales/Cymru, Japan/Nihon/Nippon, the Basque Country/Euskadi and probably Austria/Österreich, although the former is a Latin translation of the latter, respectively of a medieval German form of the latter. Switzerland (Suisse in French, Svizzera in Italian, and Schweiz in German) uses its Latin variants _Helvetia_ and _Confoederation Helvetica_ for some offical purpuses, for example on coins. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/6 "2005-11-27T21:34:47Z")
Confoederatio, that is. And there’s one include/impose too much in my last post. I really ought to get used to using the preview. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/7 "2005-11-27T21:48:23Z")
There’s a good list [here](http://www.omniglot.com/countries/europe.htm) - notable examples: Albania - Shqipëria Hungary - Magyarország Scotland - Alba Isle of Man - Ellan Vannin (or also just Mannin) Plus, Cornwall - Kernow Admittedly Manx and Cornish are extinct languages! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/8 "2005-11-27T22:06:43Z")
Actually, almost any country which has a significant history and which does not have English as its principal language will have an indigenous name different from the common English name. Norway: Norge Sweden: Sverige Finland: Suomi Denmark: Danmark Germany: Deutschland Austria: Oesterreich The Netherlands: Die Nederlanden Belgium: Belgique Spain: España Italy: Italia Croatia: Hrvatska Switzerland: (numerous names noted above) Czech Republic: Cesky Serbia: Srbija Greece: ‘Ellas (pronounced Hellas) Estonia: Eesti Russia: properly transliterated, Rossiya Ivory Coast: Cote d’Ivoire India: Bharat Burma: Myanmar Japan: Nihon Korea: Chosen Turkey: Turkiye Cambodia: Kampuchea, Khmer ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/9 "2005-11-27T22:25:05Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > – look no further than **Egypt** , which is _Mizrayim_ in Hebrew, and something very similar (can’t remember the exact pronounciation) in Arabic. It’s “Misr” (with an “accented” “s” ) in Arabic. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/10 "2005-11-28T00:54:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Actually, almost any country which has a significant history and which does not have English as its principal language will have an indigenous name different from the common English name. Right, but many or most of these are very similar to the English, and obviously historically related to the English terms. > [@](#): > > Germany: Deutschland This is of course an interesting one. The German term is related to “Teutonic” and similar terms describing Germanic people in general; the Italian adjective is still _tedesco_ for that reason. [Cecil addresses the multitude of names for it in a column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_162.html), but (as he states) the origin of the Roman term GERMANIA is not known for certain. > [@](#): > > Spain: España I’ve always wondered about the exact relation between the English term and the terms used in the Romance languages: España, Espagne, Espanha, and so forth. The origin is in the Latin HISPANIA (originally from Phoenician, possibly from a term meaning “Land of Rabbits.” The loss of the initial H in the modern Romance languages reflects the loss of that phoneme in Latin during Classical times at the latest (I forget exactly when.) I’m not certain where the loss of the E in English comes from; it’s possible that the first syllable was entirely lost at some point in Romance/Late Vulgar Latin, and the E in the Spanish word is just the usual epenthetic added to prevent a consonant cluster that is impossible word-initially. > [@](#): > > Italy: Italia This reflects, as far as I know, the usual English habit of using terms derived from French. The French _Italie_ is the result of the usual loss in French of final A, making it an entirely predictable cognate of the Italian _Italia_. > [@](#): > > Estonia: Eesti Unlike Hungary and Finland (which speak related languages), with their radically different native and English names, this one at least resembles the English, though I’m not sure of the origin. > [@](#): > > India: Bharat Can anyone tell about the origin of the term “India”? How old a name is “Bharat”? > [@](#): > > Burma: Myanmar Actually, not a strange occurrence at all. The name in Burmese is pronounced, so I’ve read, /baa ma/; “Myanmar” (pronounced “myahn ma”) is simply an ancient form of the same word (though exactly what led the ruling regime to demand its use overseas I’m not certain of.) The Rs are simply the result of bad British transliteration - there is no sound resembling the American R in either of the words, but those R-dropping Brits used it to mark long vowels. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/11 "2005-11-28T01:05:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Korea: Chosen 조선 Jo-seon (formerly romanised as Chosun) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/12 "2005-11-28T01:21:58Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Estonia: Eesti “People from the East”, in either German or Swedish (can’t recall which), as pronounced in Estonian. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/13 "2005-11-28T04:09:04Z")
Bhutan: Druk-Yul China: Zhongguo or Zhonghua Maldives: Dhivehi Raajje Morocco: Al Maghrib ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/14 "2005-11-28T04:20:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > 조선 Jo-seon (formerly romanised as Chosun) Thanks for the correction; I did that one and Japan/Nihon from memory. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/15 "2005-11-28T04:24:26Z")
Moscow: Moskva Saint Petersburg: Sankt Peterburg ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/16 "2005-11-28T04:26:32Z")
Auschwitz: Oswiecem (sp) Prague: Praha ---
**Author:** ![jastu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@jastu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jastu)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/17 "2005-11-28T04:30:36Z")
New Zealand: Aotearoa ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/18 "2005-11-28T06:21:53Z")
Vienna = Wien (pronounceed almost as _Ween_ as far as I can tell.) Copenhagen = Kobenhavn (The last syllable is pronounced sort of like “hawn.”) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/19 "2005-11-28T07:26:41Z")
New Orleans ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953/20 "2005-11-28T07:34:23Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Maybe al-Quds is much younger as a name, but it seems to be a common name for the city among speakers of Arabic, and so it’s far from being irrelevant here - the OP had asked about cities whose local name differs substantially from the common English name, and al-Quds/Jersualem exactly fits that. The OP didn’t include impose any conditions on how long the name has to have been used, or where it came from. I suppose we’d need the OP to clarify, but I suspect (s)he meant “places that **we** (English speakers) have invented names for, that are nothing like the original place names.” In the case of Jerusalem/Al-Quds, arguably it would be the Arabs who “messed up” the perfectly good, existing name in favor of something they invented… while English has remained true to the source – what the original inhabitants actually called the place. Anyway, right now – politics aside – the city is officially called “Yerushalayim” by the people controlling it… not “Al-Quds” > [@](#): > > [sub]And just one slight nitpick: It was Aelia Capitlina, not Ilia.[/sub] Yup :smack: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-countries-whose-native-names-are-different-from-english-names/332953.md?page=2)