# Cities painting BLM on pubic streets **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416 "2020-06-11T00:02:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/41 "2020-06-11T01:52:19Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes I do and it if it was truly institutional then I couldn’t be where I am. Sure you could. “Institutional” or “systemic” discrimination, oppression, etc., doesn’t always mean a rigid system of official double standards as per Jim Crow laws. It can also be present in systems that are nominally egalitarian but in practice allow a lot of latitude for old biases to keep operating. Just because you as an individual black man haven’t personally had problems with institutional racism doesn’t mean that institutional racism doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/42 "2020-06-11T01:52:39Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > No different than all those rainbow pedestrian crosswalks you see in cities with large gay populations. And although the federal government has tried to [intimidate localities into getting rid of them](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/government-says-rainbow-crosswalks-could-be-unsafe/994783198/), the fact they can only threaten funding cutbacks shows there’s no legal basis to get rid of them. And as the article notes, cities aren’t listening anyway. You don’t think BLM just without the # is political? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/43 "2020-06-11T02:02:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure you could. “Institutional” or “systemic” discrimination, oppression, etc., doesn’t always mean a rigid system of official double standards as per Jim Crow laws. It can also be present in systems that are nominally egalitarian but in practice allow a lot of latitude for old biases to keep operating. Just because you as an individual black man haven’t personally had problems with institutional racism doesn’t mean that institutional racism doesn’t exist. Ok, but if its institutional then I should have had a problem somewhere in 50 years right? I think you know what I’m going to say. The flip side would also be true right? Or am I just lucky? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/44 "2020-06-11T02:07:15Z")
Ok I read your post again and I see you are saying institutional racism is the default so this must have been that. This is where I disagree, in this case. It was clearly personal and a police corruption issue. Really I find it hard to find any of these cases to be the result of institutional racism and more of police overreach. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/45 "2020-06-11T02:12:30Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Ok, but if its institutional then I should have had a problem somewhere in 50 years right? In 50 years you haven’t had a problem with systemic racism? Less than two years ago [you were sure sounding as though you did](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21223645&postcount=25743). > [@split p&j](#): > > I work out of one of the biggest rail terminals in the country and I’m one of the few black people that work there. It’s about 98% white and they let you know everyday you are not welcome. Forget about any other minority, there aren’t any. > > The majority are Trump supporters, I’d say about 90%, even though the so-called tax cuts will hurt us railroaders. They actually don’t believe that they won’t be able to itemize deductions and write off things this year like we were able to do in the past. > > I actually think they don’t even care if it hurts them, as long as hurts black people more. And that was in response to **El\_Kabong** describing institutional racism in a railroad he worked for in the 1970s. When you have a workplace culture that is resistant to racial integration and deliberately unwelcome to minority employees, not to mention gleeful about a crypto-white-nationalist executive further disadvantaging black people, that’s systemic or institutional racism in action. Just because there aren’t actual laws in place anymore literally saying that the railroads can’t employ black people, or tax policy needs to disfavor black taxpayers more than white ones, doesn’t mean that there isn’t still a systemic or institutional culture of racism affecting us. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/46 "2020-06-11T02:14:41Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Ok I read your post again and I see you are saying institutional racism is the default so this must have been that. Wait, what? No, I’m definitely not declaring that every abuse of power is necessarily based in racism. I’m just saying that racism doesn’t have to be officially codified in law in order to be very persistently influential in society. As your own workplace experience seems to indicate. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/47 "2020-06-11T02:15:51Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes I do and it if it was truly institutional then I couldn’t be where I am. You could not be more wrong. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/48 "2020-06-11T02:16:35Z")
Yes, but I still work there. If it was institutional racism I wouldn’t be able to work there at all. My co workers are all racists and I’m not friends with them but I’m still able to work there and do my job. In fact I’m going on 20 years now. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/49 "2020-06-11T02:18:37Z")
I don’t trust in God. Yet my money, printed and coined on my behalf by my government using my tax dollars, says “In God We Trust”. I think Confederate military officers were all traitors by definition, and just about all of them were racists to boot. Yet there are public statues and monuments glorifying them all over where I live, and laws forbidding localities that want to take them down from doing so. There are streets and schools and other public facilities named after them, which were paid for by my tax dollars. For that matter, I was stationed for years on a U.S. Army post named after one of them. My city, county, state, and federal government pay for political statements _constantly_ with which I disagree, using my tax money. They also undertake actual policies with which I disagree. That’s frustrating, but it’s not illegal. And, by the way, I was not personally consulted about any of that. I do get to vote for or against the office holders who made all of those decisions on a regular basis, though. Oh, and if I feel very strongly that my government is doing something wrong, I can go out and protest… ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/50 "2020-06-11T02:22:52Z")
You are wrong Kimstu. The very fact that there are no longer any laws in place proves my point. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/51 "2020-06-11T02:23:39Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes, but I still work there. If it was institutional racism I wouldn’t be able to work there at all. You keep on misunderstanding how “institutional” is being used here. As I already said a few posts ago: > [@Kimstu](#): > > “Institutional” or “systemic” discrimination, oppression, etc., doesn’t always mean a rigid system of official double standards as per Jim Crow laws. It can also be present in systems that are nominally egalitarian but in practice allow a lot of latitude for old biases to keep operating. You seem to think that “institutional”, when applied to racism, has to mean a legally mandated or _de jure_ form of racist discrimination. It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/52 "2020-06-11T02:26:05Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I don’t trust in God. Yet my money, printed and coined on my behalf by my government using my tax dollars, says “In God We Trust”. > > I think Confederate military officers were all traitors by definition, and just about all of them were racists to boot. Yet there are public statues and monuments glorifying them all over where I live, and laws forbidding localities that want to take them down from doing so. There are streets and schools and other public facilities named after them, which were paid for by my tax dollars. For that matter, I was stationed for years on a U.S. Army post named after one of them. > > My city, county, state, and federal government pay for political statements _constantly_ with which I disagree, using my tax money. They also undertake actual policies with which I disagree. That’s frustrating, but it’s not illegal. > > And, by the way, I was not personally consulted about any of that. I do get to vote for or against the office holders who made all of those decisions on a regular basis, though. > > Oh, and if I feel very strongly that my government is doing something wrong, I can go out and protest… All this is wrong too, but they just painted the BLM thing, so it can be easily removed. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/53 "2020-06-11T02:27:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You keep on misunderstanding how “institutional” is being used here. As I already said a few posts ago: > > You seem to think that “institutional”, when applied to racism, has to mean a legally mandated or _de jure_ form of racist discrimination. It doesn’t. Ok so now words mean nothing, and I don’t mean simple typos. If it’s not legally mandated how it is enforced? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/54 "2020-06-11T02:31:55Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I don’t agree with BLM You don’t agree that Black lives matter? I’ve been seeing and hearing the phrase “Black lives matter” a lot lately. In every case, I have seen no indication that it is in reference to some “group.” Rather, people are affirming that Black. Lives. Matter. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/55 "2020-06-11T02:35:19Z")
In other words, what is really stopping any black person from reaching as high as they can in this country? I already know the answer is nothing. There is no institutional racism now. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/56 "2020-06-11T02:36:30Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Ok so now words mean nothing […] 😕 The terms “institutional racism” and “systemic racism” have been used in the sense I’m describing for [more than fifty years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism). You’re just now getting around to noticing that they’re not synonymous with “legally mandated and enforced _de jure_ racial discrimination”? > [@](#): > > Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions. It is reflected in disparities regarding wealth, income, criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power and education, among other factors. > > The term “institutional racism” was first coined and first used in 1967 by Stokely Carmichael (later known as Kwame Ture) and Charles V. Hamilton in Black Power: The Politics of Liberation. Carmichael and Hamilton wrote that while individual racism is often identifiable because of its overt nature, institutional racism is less perceptible because of its “less overt, far more subtle” nature. Institutional racism “originates in the operation of established and respected forces in the society, and thus receives far less public condemnation than [individual racism]”. They gave examples. > > > [@](#): > > > > When terrorists bomb a black church and kill five black children, that is an act of individual racism, widely deplored by most segments of the society. But when in that same city – Birmingham, Alabama – five hundred black babies die each year because of the lack of proper food, shelter and medical facilities, and thousands more are destroyed and maimed physically, emotionally and intellectually because of conditions of poverty and discrimination in the black community, that is a function of institutional racism. When a black family moves into a home in a white neighborhood and is stoned, burned or routed out, they are victims of an overt act of individual racism which most people will condemn. But it is institutional racism that keeps black people locked in dilapidated slum tenements, subject to the daily prey of exploitative slumlords, merchants, loan sharks and discriminatory real estate agents. The society either pretends it does not know of this latter situation, or is in fact incapable of doing anything meaningful about it. That’s the same sort of institutional racism that, by your own account, is keeping your workplace almost as resistant to racial integration now as it was in the 1970s, and is enabling the workplace culture that constantly tells you you’re not welcome there even though you’ve worked there for 20 years. No, you’re not being legally prohibited from working there. But legal prohibition is by no means the only form that institutional racism can take. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/57 "2020-06-11T02:37:29Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You don’t agree that Black lives matter? > > I’ve been seeing and hearing the phrase “Black lives matter” a lot lately. In every case, I have seen no indication that it is in reference to some “group.” Rather, people are affirming that Black. Lives. Matter. Well then they need to put the \*next to it because it clear black lives don’t really matter unless. They are not affirming what you say. This whole thing should have been a movement against police or toward police reform if you will. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/58 "2020-06-11T02:42:11Z")
My city should not be taking the slogan of a extreme left wing political movement and painting all over the street. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/59 "2020-06-11T02:43:17Z")
Put reform the police there or something. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416/60 "2020-06-11T02:46:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 The terms “institutional racism” and “systemic racism” have been used in the sense I’m describing for [more than fifty years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism). You’re just now getting around to noticing that they’re not synonymous with “legally mandated and enforced _de jure_ racial discrimination”? > That’s the same sort of institutional racism that, by your own account, is keeping your workplace almost as resistant to racial integration now as it was in the 1970s, and is enabling the workplace culture that constantly tells you you’re not welcome there even though you’ve worked there for 20 years. > > No, you’re not being legally prohibited from working there. But legal prohibition is by no means the only form that institutional racism can take. So its not welcoming so what. What does that have to do with anything? We are all adults we don’t have to be friends we are not in high school here. You can legally work there, in fact the companies go out of the way to make sure of it. Even banning the rebel flag on company property. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-painting-blm-on-pubic-streets/855416.md?page=4)