# Cities that have lost multiple teams **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 15, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714 "2018-01-15T20:31:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/1 "2018-01-15T20:31:16Z")
Or, things that pop into my head at 1 a.m… I actually started thinking about this a couple of weeks ago, when the Rams were in the NFL playoffs, in their second year back in L.A., and after their tenure in St. Louis ended with a long run of mediocre-to-bad teams. Not including the early years of the various major pro leagues (in which it was common for teams to fold or move), St. Louis has lost five teams in the four major pro sports: Football: - Cardinals (moved to Phoenix in 1988) - Rams (moved to Los Angeles in 2016) Baseball: - Browns (moved to Baltimore, and became the Orioles, in 1954) Basketball: - Hawks (moved to Atlanta in 1968) - Spirits (folded when the ABA and NBA merged in 1976) I suspect that that’s a record for franchise losses in one city, but I may be mistaken. Are there other candidates? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/2 "2018-01-15T21:15:54Z")
Cleveland Rams (NFL) moved to LA Browns (NFL) moved to Baltimore Barons (NHL) folded (technically merged with Minnesota) Crusaders (WHA) folded I think Cleveland Pipers (ABL) folded ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/3 "2018-01-15T21:21:29Z")
Not a contender to the above, but I find it interesting that Atlanta has lost two NHL teams: – Atlanta Flames, moved to Calgary to become the Calgary Flames in 1980. – Atlanta Thrashers, moved to Winnipeg to become the Winnipeg Jets in 2011. I guess hockey just doesn’t work in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/4 "2018-01-15T21:22:48Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Crusaders (WHA) folded I think It looks like they actually moved to Minnesota, and became the WHA’s second incarnation of the Fighting Saints, but then folded partway through their one season there (1976-77). > **[Cleveland Crusaders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Crusaders)** > > The Cleveland Crusaders were a professional ice hockey team from Cleveland. They played in the World Hockey Association from 1972 to 1976. Their home ice was the Cleveland Arena from 1972 to 1974, and the Richfield Coliseum from 1974 to 1976. > The team was owned by Nick Mileti, who had been the founder of the NBA's Cleveland Cavaliers, and also owned Major League Baseball's Cleveland Indians. He had also owned the nine-time American Hockey League champion Cleveland Barons, but moved them to Jack... > **[Minnesota Fighting Saints | Second team](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Fighting_Saints#Second_team)** > > After the NHL's California Golden Seals moved to Cleveland to become the Cleveland Barons, the WHA's Cleveland Crusaders moved to St. Paul for the 1976–77 season. Like their predecessors, this second version of the Saints (called the "New Fighting Saints" in advertising and promotional material) had a winning record through their first 42 games (19–18–5), but owner Nick Mileti was unable to sell the team to local buyers. > The "New" Fighting Saints played their final game on January 14, 1977, a 9–... ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/5 "2018-01-15T21:22:51Z")
[From here.](http://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/what-city-and-state-has-lost-the-most-sports-teams) New York City > [@](#): > > I guess I gave this one away already, but New York City has lost 10 pro sports teams in its history. Some people may take issue with lumping all five boroughs together, but this is my site so my rules. > ETA:Just behind New York City in the loss column are St. Louis and Cleveland, who have each seen nine teams go away. St. Louis most recently saw the NFL’s Cardinals move to Arizona in 1988 and the NBA’s Hawks fly to Atlanta in 1968. More recently, all signs point to the St. Louis Rams returning to their longtime home in Los Angeles soon, at which point the city will tie New York for this infamous honor. And as a state, Ohio has lost 20 teams. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/6 "2018-01-15T21:24:31Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I guess hockey just doesn’t work in Atlanta. I can’t believe there are too many kids who play hockey growing up in Atlanta. And Washington DC has lost the Senators twice (though there was an instant replacement the first time.) ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/7 "2018-01-15T21:45:59Z")
The current Milwaukee Brewers of MLB played all of _one season_ in Seattle as the Seattle Pilots. And Seattle lost the NBA’s SuperSonics. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/8 "2018-01-15T21:47:52Z")
The Twin Cities lost the Lakers to LA (NBA), and the North Stars to Dallas (NHL). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/9 "2018-01-15T21:56:46Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > The current Milwaukee Brewers of MLB played all of _one season_ in Seattle as the Seattle Pilots. Yeah, the Pilots were a disaster of an idea, but mostly for reasons beyond their control. They were forced to start play two years early, because the AL had been pressured into letting the Royals start play in 1969 instead of 1971, and the league needed to expand by two teams at once. They played in a rundown, minor-league stadium (ironically called Sicks’ Stadium), because the planned new stadium for 1971 hadn’t yet been built. They had terrible attendance, and an owner who wasn’t interested in throwing more money at a losing proposition. Several attempts to sell the team to owners who would keep it in Seattle fell through, and the sale of the team to Bud Selig (and its move to Milwaukee) literally happened days before Opening Day, 1970. (The resulting lawsuit against the American League by Seattle, King County, and Washington state eventually led to the creation of the Mariners.) ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/10 "2018-01-15T22:02:32Z")
Melbourne “lost” South Melbourne to Sydney and Fitzroy to Brisbane. They have been increasing pressure & incentives for North Melbourne to go to Tasmania for years. Curiously enough, were that to succeed South Melbourne have gone north while North Melbourne would go south. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/11 "2018-01-15T22:14:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [From here.](http://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/what-city-and-state-has-lost-the-most-sports-teams) New York City > > And as a state, Ohio has lost 20 teams. [Going on 21](https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2017/11/03/columbus-crew-sponsors-say-deals-have-gotten-much.html), if you count MLS as a “major sport”. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/12 "2018-01-15T22:20:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [From here.](http://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/what-city-and-state-has-lost-the-most-sports-teams) New York City Though, as the author notes, most of those came from the early years of MLB and the NFL (during which franchise moves and closures were much more common). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/13 "2018-01-15T22:34:24Z")
Philadelphia lost the (now Golden State) Warriors, and lost the Athletics to Kansas City. KC then lost the A’s to Oakland, the Kings to Sacramento, and the Scouts to Denver (they’re now the Colorado Avalanche). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/14 "2018-01-15T22:35:50Z")
Dallas lost TWO pro football teams called the Texans. One moved to Baltimore and became the Colts, while the other moved to KC and became the Chiefs. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/15 "2018-01-15T22:40:09Z")
Kansas City has lost: The Athletics, to Oakland The Scouts, to Colorado The Kings, to Sacramento They also had an early NFL team, the Cowboys, but I don’t know if we’re counting those. ninja’ed by astorian, but the Scouts aren’t the Avalanche - they became the Colorado Rockies, who later became the New Jersey Devils. The Avalanche are the re-located Quebec Nordiques. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/16 "2018-01-15T22:40:15Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Philadelphia lost the (now Golden State) Warriors, and lost the Athletics to Kansas City. > > KC then lost the A’s to Oakland, the Kings to Sacramento, and the Scouts to Denver (they’re now the Colorado Avalanche). When the Scouts moved to Denver in 1976, they became the Colorado Rockies; they moved to New Jersey six years later and became the Devils. The Avalanche came to Denver as the Quebec Nordiques. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/17 "2018-01-15T22:43:30Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Dallas lost TWO pro football teams called the Texans. One moved to Baltimore and became the Colts, while the other moved to KC and became the Chiefs. Technically true, though the NFL records don’t officially acknowledge the first one as a “move.” Dallas definitely lost the first Dallas Texans (which only played one season, 1952). The owners of the Texans turned the franchise back to the NFL midway through the season, and they played their final few games all on the road, as wards of the league. The NFL then folded the Texans franchise folded after the season, and shortly thereafter, awarded a new franchise to Baltimore, which became the Colts. Despite the fact that the new Baltimore team was awarded assets from the defunct Texans (including a number of players), neither the Colts nor the NFL officially acknowledge that the franchise’s lineage traces back to the Texans. As far as NFL records are concerned, the Texans folded after 1952, and a brand-new franchise began in Baltimore in 1953. > **[Dallas Texans (NFL) | History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Texans_%28NFL%29#History)** > > After the 1951 season, the financially troubled New York Yanks franchise, originally founded as the Dayton Triangles, was put on the market by Ted Collins, who had founded the franchise in 1944 as the Boston Yanks before moving it to New York City in 1949, rebranding them as the Bulldogs, and rebranded it again as the Yanks in 1950. After failing to find a buyer, Collins sold the team back to the League. > On January 29, 1952, a Dallas-based group led by a pair of young millionaires, Giles Miller ... ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/18 "2018-01-15T22:54:02Z")
When the Raiders relocate to Las Vegas in 2020 (or possibly 2019), the city of Oakland will have lost _the same team_ on two separate occasions. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/19 "2018-01-15T23:47:34Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > (The resulting lawsuit against the American League by Seattle, King County, and Washington state eventually led to the creation of the Mariners.) And the Blue Jays, to my delight; they needed two teams to keep it balanced, and Toronto had owners who were desperate for a team and had come a whisker from poaching the Giants from San Francisco. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714/20 "2018-01-16T00:35:17Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I can’t believe there are too many kids who play hockey growing up in Atlanta. That seems to be only marginally related. For example, the NHL teams in California have been doing pretty well for years, and kids don’t play hockey here either. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-that-have-lost-multiple-teams/806714.md?page=2)