# Cities w/o suburbs: Every metro area in America should have consolidated metro government **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395 "2013-08-05T14:59:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/61 "2013-08-06T18:52:22Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Like curbing sprawl is a bad thing. Sprawl is good, it means people have a place to live. Cities have been sprawling ever since the second house was built next to the first. It seems sprawl is everything built after you have your house. Do you even understand what “sprawl” means in the context of this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/62 "2013-08-06T19:33:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Do you even understand what “sprawl” means in the context of this discussion? Yes - it means “Develop that **BrainGlutton** does not like.” We are not terribly shocked. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/63 "2013-08-06T20:44:21Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yes - it means “Develop that **BrainGlutton** does not like.” We are not terribly shocked. Close. The **Earth** doesn’t like it. (And I don’t much like the Earth, fuck nature, but I need it more than it needs me . . . or us.) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/64 "2013-08-06T20:57:15Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If your answer is that larger tax bases fight segregation, then why do you suggest that urban areas form their own states? Surely getting rid of states (along with city and county governments) would be an even better solution. We could just have regional governments: one for the Mid-Atlantic, one for the Midwest, one for New England, etc. I’d combine these two ideas personally. First divide the nation into various regions which will take over some state government functions (although many will be handed up over to the federal government and down to the district governments) and then divide into metropolitan districts and non-metropolitan districts which will combine many of the functions of municipal and county government. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/65 "2013-08-06T20:59:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > There is no problem that bigger and more government can’t solve. Even if there is no problem, more and bigger government can rectify that as well. What a terrible terrible place that would be to live. Do you have anything constructive for this thread or are you just airing generic Teapartei duckspeak? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/66 "2013-08-06T21:06:47Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’d combine these two ideas personally. First divide the nation into various regions which will take over some state government functions (although many will be handed up over to the federal government and down to the district governments) and then divide into metropolitan districts and non-metropolitan districts which will combine many of the functions of municipal and county government. Well, in many countries the national government reorganizes its system of local governments periodically or as needed. But those are countries where the national government **can.** Our Constitution does not even authorize Congress to deprive a state of an inch of territory without its consent. Only the states can systematically reorganize their local governments – and, for various political and cultural and traditional reasons, they very rarely do. American political culture has a hyperfederalist streak, always has. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/67 "2013-08-06T21:18:53Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This. People want to get out of cities because they are corrupt, crime-infested shitholes. But instead of cleaning up the city, the solution is to force people who don’t want to be there to support the corruption? Count me out. The idea that _Nashville_ is a corrupt, crime-infested shithole is just hilarious to me. How much more whitebread do you fucking want?? Holy shit! I mean, it’s _Nashville_! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/68 "2013-08-06T21:30:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Do you have anything constructive for this thread or are you just airing generic Teapartei duckspeak? In this case it’s directly on topic. The solution proposed here is simply bigger government, and taking local control away from folks that the OP doesn’t like. It’s not a Tea Party response, it’s a common sense response. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/69 "2013-08-06T22:02:15Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In this case it’s directly on topic. The solution proposed here is simply bigger government, and taking local control away from folks that the OP doesn’t like. It’s not a Tea Party response, it’s a common sense response. No it doesn’t. Most of this concerns _transferring_ existing government powers and functions to a different level of government. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/70 "2013-08-06T22:14:05Z")
So if the earth is talking to people and saying it doesn’t like suburban development, what does it say is acceptable? Does it like the 500 square foot flat above the liquor store that liberals think everyone should be living in? How many earthworms and dandelions died to build that building? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/71 "2013-08-06T22:28:01Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > So if the earth is talking to people and saying it doesn’t like suburban development, what does it say is acceptable? Does it like the 500 square foot flat above the liquor store that liberals think everyone should be living in? How many earthworms and dandelions died to build that building? Generally, it likes whatever causes the least petroleum to be burned. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/72 "2013-08-06T23:04:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Generally, it likes whatever causes the least petroleum to be burned. We may kill ourselves or ruin our lives burning petroleum - we may even kill a bunch of shit - but I doubt the Earth cares. Doesn’t change the end game for her. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/73 "2013-08-06T23:07:06Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > The idea that _Nashville_ is a corrupt, crime-infested shithole is just hilarious to me. How much more whitebread do you fucking want?? Holy shit! Nashville is like most large American cities. There’s a large black ghetto that no one would voluntarily live in if they could afford better. There’s a downtown district which is mostly for tourists now, and there are a few white, middle-class neighborhoods. And the city government is, by appearances, quite happy to ignore the fact that the standard of living is so different for blacks and whites. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/74 "2013-08-06T23:15:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > OTOH, bear in mind [Lind’s Law:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=652504&highlight=lind%27s) “The lower the level of government, the more crooked and inefficient the public employees.” (looking at my municipal government, then Rahm and the Chicago City Council) Nope, mine are amateurs by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/75 "2013-08-06T23:21:19Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > How many earthworms and dandelions died to build that building? Given that earthworms and dandelions, like starlings and kudzu, are invasive species not found in the Western Hemisphere before 1492, if Mother Earth cared she still wouldn’t weep for them. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/76 "2013-08-06T23:25:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Generally, it likes whatever causes the least petroleum to be burned. Interesting. How long have you been talking to the Earth, and at what point were you appointed her High Priest? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/77 "2013-08-06T23:37:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No it doesn’t. Most of this concerns _transferring_ existing government powers and functions to a different level of government. Let’s see - the proposal is to have large cities annex surrounding g suburbs to improve their tax base to fund larger government where the exiting ones are performing poorly. So when that eventually fails would the solution be to continue annexing more and more? To what upper limit is there on this growth of a monolithic collective? If a little annexing is good, is a lot better? If not what limits are there? People live in the suburbs largely because the prefer it. Derp. Of course the OP contends that they are doing it wrong and should not be able to choose their place of residency autonomously. Yeah I think the response to decry larger and more powerful central government is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/78 "2013-08-07T00:08:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > People live in the suburbs largely because the prefer it. This is not about making them move, it is about what entity of local government they will vote for and pay takes to. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/79 "2013-08-07T00:25:18Z")
So… conquering them? By force, if necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395/80 "2013-08-07T00:31:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > This is not about making them move, it is about what entity of local government they will vote for and pay takes to. It’s removing a good part of why they chose to live there. They choose to live in a community that isn’t part of a larger and more urban government. They can find what they want further away, it’s not tied to a particular chunk of land. Your proposal is self-defeating as all you’re going to do is drive the people away who’s money you are trying to take. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cities-w-o-suburbs-every-metro-area-in-america-should-have-consolidated-metro-government/665395.md?page=5)