# Citing Catholic Rules, Doctor Turns Away Bleeding Woman With Dislodged IUD **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325 "2016-08-28T19:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/1 "2016-08-28T19:34:02Z")
> **[Complaint: Citing Catholic Rules, Doctor Turns Away Bleeding Woman With...](https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2016/08/23/complaint-citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-dislodged-iud/)** > > “It felt heartbreaking,” said Melanie Jones. “It felt like they were telling me that I had done something wrong, that I had made a mistake and therefore they were not going to help me; that they stigmatized me, saying that I was doing something... > [@](#): > > Her doctor confirmed the IUD was dislodged and had to be removed. But the doctor said she would be unable to remove the IUD, citing Catholic restrictions followed by Mercy Hospital and Medical Center and providers within its system. > … > Jones left her doctor’s office, still in pain and bleeding. Her options were limited. She couldn’t afford a $1,000 trip to the emergency room, and an urgent care facility was out of the question since her Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois insurance policy would only cover treatment within her network—and she had just been told that her entire network followed Catholic restrictions. > > Jones, on the advice of a friend, contacted the ACLU of Illinois. Attorneys there advised Jones to call her insurance company and demand they expedite her network change. After five hours of phone calls, Jones was able to see a doctor who removed her IUD, five days after her initial appointment and almost two weeks after she fell in the bathroom. This is complete bullshit. If you’re going to be a healthcare worker than leave your religion outside of work. If you can’t do that then choose a different profession. And entire insurance networks sure as hell shouldn’t be under such restrictions. Hospitals and other medical facilities shouldn’t be allowed to impose religious beliefs on patients. It they don’t want to abide by that, then they should stay out of healthcare. How long would we stand for Jehovah’s Witnesses owning hospitals and denying blood transfusions? How long would we stand for Scientologists owning all of the psychiatric facilities in an insurance network and refusing to prescribe psychiatric medications? The Catholic Church protects child molesters, but providing necessary medical care? Oh no! Heaven forbid! That would be wrong. I hope that she and the ACLU sue everyone involved into the ground. You want a reason to vote for Clinton over Trump? What about preventing the appointment of right-wing judges who will zealously protect religious beliefs over all else? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/2 "2016-08-28T19:43:02Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > And entire insurance networks sure as hell shouldn’t be under such restrictions. > > Hospitals and other medical facilities shouldn’t be allowed to impose religious beliefs on patients. \*In a written statement to Rewire, Mercy said, “Generally, our protocol in caring for a woman with a dislodged or troublesome IUD is to offer to remove it.” Rhodes said Mercy was reviewing its education process on Catholic directives for physicians and residents. “That act [of removing an IUD] in itself does not violate the directives,” Marty Folan, Mercy’s director of mission integration, told Rewire.\* ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/3 "2016-08-28T19:55:14Z")
That’s really weird. I would have thought a Catholic OB/GYN claiming to follow church doctrine would be more likely to insist on removing an IUD, whether the patient wanted that or not. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/4 "2016-08-28T19:55:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*In a written statement to Rewire, Mercy said, “Generally, our protocol in caring for a woman with a dislodged or troublesome IUD is to offer to remove it.” > > Rhodes said Mercy was reviewing its education process on Catholic directives for physicians and residents. > > “That act [of removing an IUD] in itself does not violate the directives,” Marty Folan, Mercy’s director of mission integration, told Rewire.\* Good. So in this case it was a misunderstanding of their own rules. I’m glad to hear it, but the general principle still stands. There have been incidents where providers refused to intervene in cases of miscarriages and dangerous pregnancies. And the people who made this decision are even more worthy of a pitting for not understanding their own rules. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/5 "2016-08-28T21:30:23Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > [Complaint: Citing Catholic Rules, Doctor Turns Away Bleeding Woman With Dislodged IUD](https://rewire.news/article/2016/08/23/complaint-citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-dislodged-iud/) > I hope that she and the ACLU sue everyone involved into the ground. On what grounds do you think her suit would be successful? And how would the ACLU even have standing? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/6 "2016-08-28T21:53:20Z")
It is serious concern, Catholic hospitals imposing their doctrine on patients instead of medical care. I don’t understand how the law allows a medical facility to bring theology into a standard of care. Unfortunately the problem seems to be growing. I would never under any circumstances recommend to a women in my family to come anywhere near a Catholic hospital in matters of reproductive health or related issues, such as treatment after a sexual assault or dealing with an ectopic pregnancy. > **[It's a sin: Women's lives at risk thanks to holier-than-thou Catholic Hospitals](https://www.salon.com/2016/08/05/its-a-sin-womens-lives-at-risk-thanks-to-holier-than-thou-catholic-hospitals/)** > > Doctors are being denied the right to offer female patients the best care in order to placate Catholic bishops ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/7 "2016-08-28T22:31:06Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I hope that she and the ACLU sue everyone involved into the ground. What cause of action, specifically, do you hope to see successfully used? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/8 "2016-08-28T22:47:17Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I don’t understand how the law allows a medical facility to bring theology into a standard of care. At least, they should be required to explain to all new patients exactly how their services are limited. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/9 "2016-08-28T23:03:31Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > At least, they should be required to explain to all new patients exactly how their services are limited. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/10 "2016-08-29T00:06:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What cause of action, specifically, do you hope to see successfully used? Well, the ACLU filed a complaint for gender discrimination, but that seems pretty specious. If she suffered any irreparable damage, she should have cause, but the article doesn’t specify. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/11 "2016-08-29T00:17:13Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > At least, they should be required to explain to all new patients exactly how their services are limited. What if there’s only one hospital within a reasonable distance? What if your health care plan only includes Catholic controlled hospitals. This article describes the problem well. [As Reach of Catholic Hospitals Grows, So Does Risk to Patient Reproductive Health Care](https://rewire.news/article/2015/09/08/reach-catholic-hospitals-grows-risk-patient-reproductive-health-care/) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/12 "2016-08-29T00:23:06Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What if there’s only one hospital within a reasonable distance? What if your health care plan only includes Catholic controlled hospitals. So what? > [@](#): > > This article describes the problem well. [As Reach of Catholic Hospitals Grows, So Does Risk to Patient Reproductive Health Care](https://rewire.news/article/2015/09/08/reach-catholic-hospitals-grows-risk-patient-reproductive-health-care/) rewire is an advocacy website, not a real cite. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/13 "2016-08-29T00:26:31Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What if there’s only one hospital within a reasonable distance? What if your health care plan only includes Catholic controlled hospitals. The former is inconvenient, to be sure, but there doesn’t seem to be any imperative to assure that quality hospital services are within everybody’s reasonable travel radii. (Some people must have no hospitals at all; others, perhaps, only ones deficient for other reasons.) The latter _should_ be illegal. Does the ACA not have anything to say on this? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/14 "2016-08-29T00:28:52Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Well, the ACLU filed a complaint for gender discrimination, but that seems pretty specious. If she suffered any irreparable damage, she should have cause, but the article doesn’t specify. Maybe pain and suffering? According to the article she went through a lot of pain before she could get the treatment she needed. I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know what cause of action she has if any, but if she has none, then maybe we need some changes to the law. I wonder if a case could be made for violation of her religious freedoms. Having someone else’s religion interfere with your health and well-being would seem to be as much a violation as someone interfering with your own religious beliefs. Okay, maybe not in her case, since this appears to be a case of some individuals misunderstanding the rules, but in other cases maybe? If we had lots of hospitals everywhere and freedom to choose regardless of your insurance, then maybe this wouldn’t be a problem, but that’s not the real world. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/15 "2016-08-29T00:35:59Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > So what? > > rewire is an advocacy website, not a real cite. So what? Have you read the article or do you just not care about people receiving proper health care? Being an advocacy site doesn’t automatically make it wrong. But how about ABC news? > **[Debate Over Catholic Directives That Affect 13 Percent of US Hospitals](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/catholic-bishops-influence-healthcare-catholic-hospitals/story?id=21123027)** > > ACLU suit claims hospitals don't give patients all their options on abortion. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/16 "2016-08-29T00:38:57Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Maybe pain and suffering? According to the article she went through a lot of pain before she could get the treatment she needed. You don’t know what you are talking about. This is not pain and suffering, under the law. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/17 "2016-08-29T00:43:23Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So what? Have you read the article or do you just not care about people receiving proper health care? > > Being an advocacy site doesn’t automatically make it wrong. But how about ABC news? > > [Debate Over Catholic Directives That Affect 13 Percent of US Hospitals - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/catholic-bishops-influence-healthcare-catholic-hospitals/story?id=21123027) From three years ago. Not a cite, just an opinon. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/18 "2016-08-29T01:06:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What cause of action, specifically, do you hope to see successfully used? I would hope that a woman put into such a predicament would receive legal counsel by the ACLU. I don’t want to second guess the court system. But I would hope that the ACLU would file a complaint with [the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Office for Civil Rights](http://www.aclu-il.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2016-6-30_Melanie-Jones-OCR-Complaint.pdf) based on Mercy’s discriminatory policies and practices of denying women medical care relating to contraceptive services in violation of Section 1557 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act 1557 codifed at 42 USC 18116 (2012) (“Section 1557”) IIRC. Also, they might consider dropping a line to the [Illinois Department of Human Rights](http://www.aclu-il.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2016-8-22_Redacted-Charge-of-Discrimination-Melanie-Jones.pdf) with regards to whether Mercy, a place of public accomodation, denied her the full and equal access to its facilitites, goods, and services on the basis of her sex. ( [Chicago area woman files complaint after being denied critical health care because of religious objections | ACLU of Illinois](http://www.aclu-il.org/chicago-area-woman-files-complaint-after-being-denied-critical-health-care-because-of-religious-objections/) ) I would also recommend that Mercy review its education process on Catholic directives for physicians and residents. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/19 "2016-08-29T01:15:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > So what? > > rewire is an advocacy website, not a real cite. Well, I can cite that every Group Health hospital within an hour of my home is Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325/20 "2016-08-29T01:47:39Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Good. So in this case it was a misunderstanding of their own rules. I’m glad to hear it, but the general principle still stands. There have been incidents where providers refused to intervene in cases of miscarriages and dangerous pregnancies. > > And the people who made this decision are even more worthy of a pitting for not understanding their own rules. Yes, it seems this is the result of a serious misunderstanding of what are the actual policies, but that does not arise out of a vacuum. If the staff believed that the rule was far more rigid than it really is, it’s suggestive a failure of the higher-ups to properly communicate, or having focused a bit too much on the Catholic reproductive-health doctrine and too little on clarifying exigent case situations, thus leaving the wrong impression. Often people don’t want to talk about exceptions and special cases out of a desire to avoid creating the impression that the doctrine is a trifle, but you DO need to bring it up. There’s also the possibility that there’s some on the staff who \*themselves \*are inflexible/intolerant on this issue, and heard the rules but interpreted them to support the way they already lean. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citing-catholic-rules-doctor-turns-away-bleeding-woman-with-dislodged-iud/764325.md?page=2)