# Citizen Trump (et al.) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458 "2021-01-13T17:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/201 "2021-04-12T00:42:32Z")
68,000 registered party members left the R party. And an extra 40 million RW rubes showed up at the polls and bought merch. Sure looks like a losing strategy to me. NOT! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/202 "2021-04-16T23:58:30Z")
Awwwwww… > **[Justice Department sues Roger Stone over $2M in unpaid taxes](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-roger-stone-lawsuits-florida-fort-lauderdale-bb4edbddb628e602ced4fcd3f2f99312)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department sued Donald Trump's ally Roger Stone on Friday, accusing the conservative provocateur and his wife of failing to pay nearly $2 million in income tax... 😼 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/203 "2021-04-17T01:27:11Z")
Why does teh government have to sue someone over unpaid income taxes? Simply have the IRS SWAT team (yes they are real) descend on their house and take them to jail. After a guilty verdict in an appropriate criminal trial the appropriate money is seized. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/204 "2021-04-17T02:17:56Z")
They can do both. > **[5.1.5 Balancing Civil and Criminal Cases | Internal Revenue Service](https://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-001-005r#idm140039914152784)** > > 5.1.5  Balancing Civil and Criminal Cases 5.1.5.1  Program Scope and Objectives 5.1.5.1.1  Background 5.1.5.1.2  > The Internal Revenue Code (IRC) contains both civil and criminal provisions to address fraud. Revenue officers may conduct civil investigations before, during or after criminal investigations of the same taxpayer. If the investigation is conducted simultaneously with the criminal investigation, the process is referred to as a parallel investigation. So there’s nothing stopping them from going after them with criminal charges later or at the same time. Maybe the civil case is faster to prove here. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/205 "2021-04-17T02:40:47Z")
I think what’s happening here is that the government is trying to “reduce to judgment” the collections actions that are in progress against Stone. From my education I recall that the government has 10 years from the assessment of the taxes to collect them or “reduce to judgment” by suing the individuals. (The 10 years from assessment is on top of the statutory limits of time on assessment, which is 3 years in most cases, but 6 years for fraud, and are timed from when the tax return was filed or due, whichever is later.) All that it means is that there is a change of procedure from collection attempts by the IRS as a Treasury department agency, to collection attempts by the Justice department, and that there is no limit on time for when they can be collected, as there would be if it was just the IRS collecting. I don’t know how these things usually go, but I would think it’s generally used when there’s a lot of money involved and the potential to have things go over the time limit, as may be the case for taxes from 2007 (3 years since they were due + 10 years = April 15, 2021, aka yesterday). Might the lawsuit be politically motivated? Sure. The Justice department has finite resources and can’t pursue every possible case, and thus may prioritize ones that are politically favorable to the administration. But unless they (Stone et al) can point to people who owe larger amounts of taxes that aren’t being targeted, there’s little reason to believe that they simply are being targeted as per usual as the Justice Department’s IRS-referral litigation wing has manpower available and they are the largest targets for possible collection when considering the possible limits on collection… ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/206 "2021-04-17T02:48:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So there’s nothing stopping them from going after them with criminal charges later or at the same time. I mentioned in my previous post exactly what this lawsuit is likely about. The IRS has assessed taxes, has been trying to collect them, has not been successful, and are running out of time on the statutes of limitations. They only need prove in court that the defendants owe the taxes the IRS says they owe. Criminal tax fraud is much harder to prove and requires proving intent. The easiest way out for most rich people when it comes to criminal tax fraud is to simply say they were following the guidance of their tax advisors, and it was legal for all they knew. You would have to prove that the defendants intentionally instructed their tax professionals to do specific things the defendants knew were illegal in order to evade taxes. It’s much easier to prove simply that the schemes used simply were not effective in reducing their tax burden. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/207 "2021-04-17T03:16:11Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > They only need prove in court that the defendants owe the taxes the IRS says they owe. Criminal tax fraud is much harder to prove and requires proving intent. That was my speculation, as I stated; that the lawsuit is faster and/or easier. And it doesn’t necessarily prevent criminal action. (If the statute of limitations is exceeded though, of course they would no longer be able to pursue them criminally.) ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/208 "2021-04-17T03:26:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > the lawsuit is faster and/or easier The lawsuit probably won’t accomplish much besides letting Stone whine about being persecuted. It’s almost certainly being filed because the IRS could not collect the taxes within the statutory limit, and if the IRS couldn’t collect them, why would the Justice Department fare much better? This lawsuit allows the Justice Department to continue collections efforts indefinitely if they reduce the assessed taxes to judgment, but it doesn’t help them find assets to seize to satisfy the debt. Hopefully the IRS can give the Justice Department their leads on where they might find assets, but it doesn’t mean they will actually find them. They’re probably all well-hidden in offshore accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/209 "2021-04-18T19:09:20Z")
Individual 1 pardoned him, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/210 "2021-04-19T04:36:17Z")
[here is the Stone pardon](https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1293796/download) document. It says that the signer has paid (using our money, I am sure) Stone’s fine related to his conviction. Taxes do not seem to be mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/211 "2021-04-30T14:34:39Z")
Shocking! news this morning: > **[Judge: Kushner's apartment company violated consumer laws](https://apnews.com/article/business-b6d67b170c946bef0db47de550c752ab)** > > BALTIMORE (AP) — A judge in Maryland has ruled that an apartment company co-owned by Jared Kushner, former President Donald Trump's son-in-law, repeatedly violated state consumer protection laws by collecting debts without required licenses, charging... ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/212 "2021-05-04T22:34:28Z")
2 Trump related social media stories on the same day… [https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ahead-trump-facebook-ruling-heres-how-social-media-sites-handle-world-leaders-2021-05-04/](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ahead-trump-facebook-ruling-heres-how-social-media-sites-handle-world-leaders-2021-05-04/) > … social network decides what world leaders and politicians can and can’t say on their platforms. > **[Trump launches new communications platform months after Twitter, Facebook ban](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-launches-new-communications-platform-months-after-twitter-facebook-ban)** > > EXCLUSIVE: Former President Trump on Tuesday launched a communications platform, which will eventually give him the ability to communicate directly with his followers, after months of being banned from sites like Twitter and Facebook.  > [@](#): > > The technology appears to be powered by Campaign Nucleus…created by his former campaign manager, Brad Parscale. > > The space allows Trump to post, and allows followers to share the former president’s posts to Twitter and Facebook, however, the new platform does not have a feature to allow users to “reply” or engage with Trump’s posts. > > “This is just a one-way communication,” one source familiar with the space told Fox News. “This system allows Trump to communicate with his followers.” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/213 "2021-05-04T22:41:08Z")
That’s amazing. Trump’s response to being deplatformed, his grand strategy to transcend the limitations on his media exposure, is… he launched a blog. A _blog._ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/214 "2021-05-04T22:54:52Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > That’s amazing. Trump’s response to being deplatformed, his grand strategy to transcend the limitations on his media exposure, is… he launched a blog. > > A _blog._ - A short step from all the logs he launched. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/215 "2021-05-04T23:13:07Z")
It sounds like someone figures that he can “evade” the Facebook/Twitter ban by having his loyalists post his words on those platforms for them and get the same exposure. I’m skeptical, but it at least sounds halfway possible. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/216 "2021-05-04T23:31:33Z")
It will put TwitFace in the awkward position of having to either filter everyone’s posts to strain out Trump’s dangerous drivel or they’ll have to filter out Trump’s fans. The former is technologically difficult and the latter will really piss off TwitFace’s actual customers: the advertisers. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/217 "2021-05-04T23:53:55Z")
Yeah, I checked out Trump’s Twitler page and it seems like it’s primary function is to make it really easy for his troll army to spam Twitter. But I noticed something else, too - something that should be obvious to everyone, I would think. The new “tweets” don’t seem to be written by Trump. They sound like Pence trying to imitate Trump. The word “ME” doesn’t appear in any of them. The message may be right, but they lack that unique self-centered psychotic spin, the way they make everything about _Trump_. Plus they’re properly spelled and capitalized. They aren’t even good fakes. It’s really strange. > **[Join | Donald J. Trump For President 2024](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/join)** > > Certified Website of Donald J. Trump For President 2024. Text Volunteer to 88022 to join the MAGA movement. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/218 "2021-05-04T23:57:48Z")
Imagine being a former “world leader” with a crushing question like: “Is Facebook gonna let me back on?” The only thing more pathetic then that loser is a supporter of that loser. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/219 "2021-05-05T13:37:22Z")
Shut the fuck up, Donny: > **[Facebook board upholds Trump ban, just not indefinitely](https://apnews.com/article/trump-facebook-oversight-board-decision-73b0c3ea9a98b9af7e38cb74562d0f54)** > > Former President Donald Trump won’t return to Facebook — at least not yet. Four months after Facebook suspended Trump's accounts , having concluded that he incited violence leading to the deadly Jan... ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458/220 "2021-05-05T18:00:11Z")
From his new [blog](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/about): > We know that our rights do not come from government, they come from God, and no earthly force can ever take those rights away. That includes the right to religious liberty and the right to Keep and Bear Arms. I have to admit that I don’t think I’ve ever seen that the Second Amendment is God-inspired or God-ordained. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizen-trump-et-al/930458.md?page=12)