# Citizenship and Nationality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 30, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170 "2008-12-30T04:33:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dandmb50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba9def/32.png) [@Dandmb50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandmb50)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/1 "2008-12-30T04:33:25Z")
My Nationality on my passport is Canadian, does that mean I am a citizen? I was born in Canada but always wondered is citizenship and nationality are the same thing? Daniel … Toronto ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/2 "2008-12-30T04:37:56Z")
> [@Dandmb50](#): > > My Nationality on my passport is Canadian, does that mean I am a citizen? I was born in Canada but always wondered is citizenship and nationality are the same thing? > > Daniel … Toronto In this case, yes. “Nationality” means you’re a citizen of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/3 "2008-12-30T04:55:13Z")
You have a Canadian passport, right? Do countries even issue passports to non-citizens? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/4 "2008-12-30T05:00:24Z")
Although Hong Kong’s not a country, some residents of the colony were issued some sort of non-British passport in the final days of UK ownership of the colony. You couldn’t move to Britain on it. I think it was a bid to keep some people safe who may have otherwise gotten into trouble with the Chinese authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/5 "2008-12-30T05:11:21Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > You have a Canadian passport, right? Do countries even issue passports to non-citizens? The U.S. has a very weird in-between state for American Samoans and maybe others. It doesn’t mean much or affect many people but there are actual Americans with passport type paperwork that are not full citizens. They are called “Nationals” instead. > **[What kind of voting rights do American Samoans have?](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/01/what-kind-of-voting-rights-do-american-samoans-have.html)** > > After losing the Jan. 26 South Carolina primary to Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton pledged to continue her fight for the White House. She said, "We now... ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/6 "2008-12-30T05:27:16Z")
Well, I too have a Canadian passport. I was born in the U.K. though. I could, according to rules, apply for a British passport, which would open doors to the E.U. and all that for me, but I never have: to date. My citizenship is Canadian, and I love the country with all my heart, but my nationality will always find a way to empathize with Scotland. Geez, that clears things up the noo, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/7 "2008-12-30T05:54:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The U.S. has a very weird in-between state for American Samoans and maybe others. It doesn’t mean much or affect many people but there are actual Americans with passport type paperwork that are not full citizens. They are called “Nationals” instead. > > [What kind of voting rights do American Samoans have?](http://www.slate.com/id/2183280/) Yep. Title III of the Immigration and Nationality Act defines “U.S. national” as one from American Samoa or [Swains Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swains_Island). They have fewer rights/privileges than citizens, but more rights/privileges than green card holders. To the OP: each country defines it differently. I can’t speak to Canada’s definition. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/8 "2008-12-30T09:14:31Z")
Thought ‘American Nationals’ was a complication? I raise with this: > [@](#): > > British Overseas Territories citizenship is a ‘citizenship’ covering all the Overseas Territories. Individual overseas territories do not have their own legal nationality status. However they retain the right to make their own immigration laws and award Belonger status, and holding BOTC does not in itself give a right to reside in a British Overseas territory. This depends on a territory’s immigration laws. Thus, some BOTCs have no right to live in any territory. > **[British Overseas Territories citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories_citizen)** > > A British Overseas Territories citizen (BOTC), previously known as a British Dependent Territories citizen (BDTC), is a category of British nationality held by individuals connected with one or more of the populated British Overseas Territories (BOTs), which are the remaining non-sovereign territories of the former British Empire. Despite this classification, inhabitants of the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar are considered full British citizens and are not solely recognised as BOTCs. This dist... ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/9 "2008-12-30T11:34:12Z")
Nationality os a lesser thing than citizenship. A citizen can vote, for example, while a convict or a child cannot. These people are(as I understand it) nationals, but not full citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/10 "2008-12-30T13:48:56Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Nationality os a lesser thing than citizenship. A citizen can vote, for example, while a convict or a child cannot. These people are(as I understand it) nationals, but not full citizens. I don’t believe this is true. I’ve never heard either example used in these discussions before. A child born in the US is a natural born citizen, not a natural born national. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/11 "2008-12-30T14:01:02Z")
> [@Dandmb50](#): > > My Nationality on my passport is Canadian, does that mean I am a citizen? I do not understand the facts as you’ve presented them. There are different things you might mean. If you are saying that the passport was issued by Canada, then it seems obvious to me that you are a citizen of Canada. If you are saying that the passport was issued by some other nation, and there is a place within it which says “Nationality: Canada”, then it seems to me that you are a citizen of the country that issued the passport, and that they consider you to be a Canadian national. But my guess is that you are saying that the passport was issued by Canada itself, and there is a place within it which says “Nationality: Canada”. If so, then I have to wonder what other things the Canadian government might have put in the “Nationality:” space. I have no idea what that field would be for. Passports issued by the USA, to my knowledge, do not have a “Nationality” field, though they do have a space for where the person was born. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/12 "2008-12-30T14:36:39Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > But my guess is that you are saying that the passport was issued by Canada itself, and there is a place within it which says “Nationality: Canada”. If so, then I have to wonder what other things the Canadian government might have put in the “Nationality:” space. Good question. I have a Canadian passport, and while I haven’t looked at it for a while, I do recall the “Nationality” space. Of course, it says, “Canadian.” I don’t think anything else could logically go in that space on a Canadian passport. But if I recall other details of my passport correctly, it is plainly stated somewhere (inside front cover?) that “The bearer of this passport is a Canadian citizen,” so that should answer the question. For what it’s worth, I’ve notarized a few “Declarations in Lieu of Guarantor” for Canadians seeking passports. In those cases, I need to see proof of citizenship: a birth certificate or a citizenship card will do in most cases. This should help to answer one of the other questions that has arisen in this thread: only Canadian citizens may hold Canadian passports. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/13 "2008-12-30T15:41:44Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Nationality os a lesser thing than citizenship. A citizen can vote, for example, while a convict or a child cannot. These people are(as I understand it) nationals, but not full citizens. That’s not true in US law. The classic counter example is Eugene Debs, who in 1919 was convicted under the Espionage Act 1917, and (according to the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs)) “Debs was convicted and sentenced to serve ten years in prison. He was also disenfranchised for life.” Notwithstanding his conviction and his imprisonment, Debs remained a citizen and ran for office as President of the United States in 1920. ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/14 "2008-12-30T16:50:34Z")
This depends on the country. For Canada, I think they are pretty much the same thing. As mentioned, in the US, there are US nationals who are not US citizens, but they are still free to live and work anywhere in the US. However, citizenship and nationality are definitely 2 very different things [in the UK](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law). There are 6 (!!!) categories of British nationalities, and only British Citizens have the automatic right to live in the UK proper. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Although Hong Kong’s not a country, some residents of the colony were issued some sort of non-British passport in the final days of UK ownership of the colony. You couldn’t move to Britain on it. I think it was a bid to keep some people safe who may have otherwise gotten into trouble with the Chinese authorities. Those are all British passports, although not necessarily British Citizen passports. Some did not provide the automatic right to live in the UK. I got one of those, but I’m still a British national, but not a citizen. There were several different programmes at the time. Some professionals and people who were involved in sensitive positions who might “get into trouble” were allowed to become full British Citizens. Some who are not ethnic-Chinese were also given full citizenship. Everyone else was entitled to register as a British National (Overseas). This does not give the right to live in the UK, but it allows people to remain British for the rest of their life. IMHO, due to its history and the way it is implemented, the British nationality law was rather racist and discriminatory. I can’t believe the UK actually manages to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/15 "2008-12-30T18:13:14Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That’s not true in US law. The classic counter example is Eugene Debs, who in 1919 was convicted under the Espionage Act 1917, and (according to the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs)) “Debs was convicted and sentenced to serve ten years in prison. He was also disenfranchised for life.” Notwithstanding his conviction and his imprisonment, Debs remained a citizen and ran for office as President of the United States in 1920. Agreed. You may lose (or not yet have acquired) certain rights of U.S. citizenship by still being underage, or convicted of a felony, or being on probation, or being civilly committed to a mental-health facility, or adjudged incompetent, but you remain a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/16 "2008-12-30T18:35:44Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] That’s not true in US law. The classic counter example is Eugene Debs, who in 1919 was convicted under the Espionage Act 1917, and (according to the Wikipedia article) “Debs was convicted and sentenced to serve ten years in prison. He was also disenfranchised for life.” Notwithstanding his conviction and his imprisonment, Debs remained a citizen and ran for office as President of the United States in 1920. [/QUOTE] > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed. You may lose (or not yet have acquired) certain rights of U.S. citizenship by still being underage, or convicted of a felony, or being on probation, or being civilly committed to a mental-health facility, or adjudged incompetent, but you remain a citizen. Both of these posts seem to be off-topic. They both talk about people who are U.S. citizens, but neither post discusses the concept of nationality at all. The text inside my U.S. passport reads: > [@U.S. Passport](#): > > The Secretary of State of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection. I think that the usage “citizen/national” is significant: It suggests that the U.S. does not really distinguish between those two concepts. However, [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Nationals_who_are_not_citizens) says that there are a very limited number of ways one can be a US national without being a US citizen: be born in American Samoa or Swains Island, or be descended from such a person. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/17 "2008-12-30T18:38:29Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Both of these posts seem to be off-topic. They both talk about people who are U.S. citizens, but neither post discusses the concept of nationality at all. They’re not off-topic. They were in response to **Paul in Saudi** ’s claim that children or convicted felons weren’t citizens of the United States. They are, they just aren’t (in some cases) entitled to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/18 "2008-12-30T18:41:36Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Both of these posts seem to be off-topic. They both talk about people who are U.S. citizens, but neither post discusses the concept of nationality at all. I was responding to a post which suggested that the distinction was that: > [@](#): > > Nationality os a lesser thing than citizenship. A citizen can vote, for example, while a convict or a child cannot. These people are(as I understand it) nationals, but not full citizens. So, even though I did not use the word “nationality” in my post, I was talking about it, by saying that US citizens who only had some of the normal rights of citizens remained US citizens, and were not “nationals”. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/19 "2008-12-30T19:15:24Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That’s not true in US law. The classic counter example is Eugene Debs, who in 1919 was convicted under the Espionage Act 1917, and (according to the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs)) “Debs was convicted and sentenced to serve ten years in prison. He was also disenfranchised for life.” Notwithstanding his conviction and his imprisonment, Debs remained a citizen and ran for office as President of the United States in 1920. Most excellent post. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170/20 "2008-12-30T19:25:00Z")
I wonder if a full-status Indian would have the name of his tribe in that space. Also Canada does issue limited passports for stateless residents. US draft dodgers during the Viet-Nam war who had renounced their citizenship were able to get them. With them you could travel, but needed visas for every country they visited. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-and-nationality/479170.md?page=2)