# Citizenship at birth - how is it determined? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886 "2008-08-13T20:18:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/1 "2008-08-13T20:18:16Z")
The American Independent Party is questioning John McCain’s right to run for President of the United States because [he wasn’t born in the 50 United States](http://legalnewsline.com/news/214833-calif.-lawsuit-challenges-mccain-candidacy). I understand that this might well turn into a debate about the legitimacy of this claim (which I don’t think has any legitimacy at all), but I’m not actually interested in that. What I want to know is how citizenship is determined. I understand that embassies are considered to be the “soil” of the country that they represent for legal purposes. I was under the impression this was also true of military bases, but I might be mistaken on that point. But is it the location of one’s birth that determines citizenship? The nationality of one’s parents? Something more subtle or complicated that I’m not aware of? I don’t know anything about Legal News Line as a source, BTW, but I couldn’t find the blog post where I originally read the story. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/2 "2008-08-13T20:24:04Z")
There are at least two questions here: (1) What determines citizenship? (2) What is a “natural born Citizen” in Article 2, Section 1, of the US Constitution? The answer to question (1) varies by country, but, as far as the US is concerned, I believe you are a citizen by birth if you are born in the US (not just the 50 states, but other territories such as DC and Puerto Rico) and your mother was not here as part of the diplomatic or consular corps of a foreign country, or one of your parents was a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/3 "2008-08-13T20:25:14Z")
Citizenship is defined by the law of the country in question. In the US, Title 8 of the US Code deals with citizenship and immigration. According to 8 USC 1401: > [@](#): > > The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: > > (a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; > > (b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property; > > (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person; > > (d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States; > > (e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person; > > (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States; > > (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person > > (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or > > (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and > > (h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/4 "2008-08-13T20:27:47Z")
So would it be possible for one to be a U.S. citizen even though none of one’s ancestors have set foot in the U.S. for ages, as long as, travelling all the way back up, one of one’s great-great-great…grandparents was a U.S. citizen (and thus citizenship kept being passed down via the “one of your parents” route)? ETA: Nevermind, **Captain Amazing** ’s post answers everything. ---
**Author:** ![KRSOradio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/0ea827/32.png) [@KRSOradio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KRSOradio)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/5 "2008-08-13T20:29:36Z")
There are two ways to confer “natural born” citizenship in the US. One is by birth. People born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction are citizens. (this leaves out diplomats who aren’t subject to the US jurisdiction) This is from the 14th Amendment. The other way is through your parents. If my parents are born in Chicago, and they travel to Mexico where I am born, I am an American by birth. For example in Vietnam and other wars if the US solider fathered a child overseas the child was an American citizen and could freely enter the US. All these types of people are “natural born.” Natural born refers to those Americans who have citzenship but are not naturalized thru a legal process to become American citizens McCain’s father was born in Iowa so John McCain is a citzen of the US from the moment he was born and since he didn’t have to go through the naturalization process he is eligable to be presidency. So if you were watching “The Family Guy,” you see just cause Peter was born in Mexico he still was a citizen all along anyway ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/6 "2008-08-13T20:39:32Z")
United States military bases overseas are not United States soil. They are the territory of the nation in which they are located. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/7 "2008-08-13T20:39:39Z")
Thanks, everybody. That satisfies my curiosity. **Monty** , you came in after everyone else, and that _definitely_ fights some ignorance on my part. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/8 "2008-08-13T22:37:08Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] United States military bases overseas are not United States soil. They are the territory of the nation in which they are located. [/QUOTE] Absolutely. I never quite understand such assertions. We had many such bases here when I was young, and there’s still some. Those who actually bothered to venture outside of the fence would discover the sign at the entrance saying ‘RAF Wherever’. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/9 "2008-08-13T23:37:12Z")
No problem, **SisterCoyote**. Right, **GorrillaMan**. It’s one of what I call “military myths.” Another such military myth is that a member of the military who injures himself has “damaged government property.” No, the correct charge is “self-inflicted injury.” The member of the military _is not_ the property of the government. Another “military myth” is that US servicemembers are not subject to foreign law while stationed in the foreign country. I’m sure that would be welcome news, if it were true (which it isn’t), to the number of US servicemembers currently serving time in foreign prisons. Anyway, there’s also the concept of [co-location](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/co-location). For example, the [United States Naval Air Field Atsugi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAF_Atsugi) is co-located with the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Air Station Atsugi. It’s one base, the entirety of which is shared by both the US Navy and the JMSDF. Regardless of that, the territory itself is still Japanese soil. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/10 "2008-08-13T23:53:58Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] United States military bases overseas are not United States soil. They are the territory of the nation in which they are located. [/QUOTE] And the same is true for embassies, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/11 "2008-08-14T00:47:50Z")
[QUOTE=KRSOradio] So if you were watching “The Family Guy,” you see just cause Peter was born in Mexico he still was a citizen all along anyway [/QUOTE] What Peter’s mother said in this episode is that she was so ashamed that she never registered his birth after reentering the US. Would this be a requirement in the real world? I seem to recall that in some cases, births abroad must be registered for citizenship reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/12 "2008-08-14T00:56:39Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Another “military myth” is that US servicemembers are not subject to foreign law while stationed in the foreign country. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t that depend on the Status of Forces Agreement in existance? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-at-birth-how-is-it-determined/459886/13 "2008-08-14T03:06:53Z")
Only if the SOFA confers diplomatic status on them. I recall reading years ago that was the case with our Armed Forces stationed in Iran during the Shah’s regime; however, I’ve no idea where that would be the case today. There are some military personnel assigned to our diplomatic missions (Marine Guards, Military Attaches, etc.) but that’s not under SOFA, it’s part of the diplomatic mission itself.