# Citizenship question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382 "2016-11-29T15:54:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/1 "2016-11-29T15:54:13Z")
This morning Donald Trump tweeted "“Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag — if they do, there must be consequences — perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!”. Leaving aside all opinions about the man, my questions is this: If a natural citizen born in the United States has her/his citizenship revoked, what country(if any) are they then a citizen of, and where would they be deported to? ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/2 "2016-11-29T15:59:15Z")
I’d assume they’d just become a stateless person. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/3 "2016-11-29T16:00:21Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > I’d assume they’d just become a stateless person. Which means what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/4 "2016-11-29T16:02:40Z")
I’m not certain that the United States CAN revoke the citizenship of a person. See Fourteenth Amendment: > [@](#): > > All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. ETA: And I’m right, at least in part. See _Afroyim v. Rusk_, 387 U.S. 253, 262–63 (1967), contrasted with _Rogers v. Bellei_, 401 U.S. 815 (1971) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/5 "2016-11-29T16:09:10Z")
[From here.](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-can-lose-us-citizenship.html) > [@](#): > > U.S. citizens (or nationals) can never be stripped of their U.S. citizenship (or nationality), with limited exceptions. And they can give it up voluntarily. This article will look at both possibilities. > \*\* > Losing U.S. Citizenship Because It Was Wrongfully Gained\*\* > > Naturalized citizens who acquired their citizenship illegally (they were not really eligible for naturalization) or by deliberate deceit (they lied or hid important information about themselves) can have their naturalization revoked. > > **Loss of Nationality Must Be by Voluntary Act With Specific Intent** > > To lose U.S. nationality, a person must both (1) voluntarily perform any of seven “expatriating” acts defined by law, and (2) perform the act or acts with a conscious desire (or specific intent) to abandon (relinquish) his or her U.S. nationality. So I’m guessing that flag burning would have to be added to the law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/6 "2016-11-29T16:12:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [From here.](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-can-lose-us-citizenship.html) > > So I’m guessing that flag burning would have to be added to the law. But the person would have to burn the flag, _and_ declare that the intent was to have citizenship revoked. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/7 "2016-11-29T16:29:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But the person would have to burn the flag, _and_ declare that the intent was to have citizenship revoked. Couldn’t the law be changed to no longer require the declaration of intent? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/8 "2016-11-29T16:35:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Couldn’t the law be changed to no longer require the declaration of intent? When it comes to Natural Citizens, **Loss of Nationality Must Be by Voluntary Act With Specific Intent**. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/9 "2016-11-29T16:39:40Z")
Aside from the constitutional issues involved, there are several treaties to which the US is a party that prohibit actions by governments to create people without a nationality, such as by stripping citizenship from people who have only one nationality. Now I’m not suggesting that those treaties present a higher hurdle than the plain text of the 14th Amendment, but I am saying that the US would be undertaking a policy that is viewed internationally as a very serious matter. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/10 "2016-11-29T16:40:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When it comes to Natural Citizens, **Loss of Nationality Must Be by Voluntary Act With Specific Intent**. Cecil wrote on the [matter](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/841/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship). ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/11 "2016-11-29T16:43:56Z")
Another idea stolen from Hillary, like the Mexican Wall: she wanted a year in jail for flag-burning. [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/opinion/senator-clinton-in-pander-mode.html) 2005 It’s always the old loons who get get up about stuff like that… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/12 "2016-11-29T16:46:18Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Cecil wrote on the [matter](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/841/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship). I know, but what I am talking about is _in_voluntary revocation of a Natural Citizen’s citizenship, which he didn’t cover. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/13 "2016-11-29T16:47:27Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Another idea stolen from Hillary, like the Mexican Wall: she wanted a year in jail for flag-burning. > [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/opinion/senator-clinton-in-pander-mode.html) 2005 > > It’s always the old loons who get get up about stuff like that… 1. No politicking, please. 2. I am not talking about the second part of Trump’s statement in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/14 "2016-11-29T16:54:17Z")
Me: “Trump is calling for people who burn the American flag to lose their citizenship and be jailed.” Mrs Piper: “What?” Me: “I think we’ll be saying that a lot for the next four years.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/15 "2016-11-29T16:57:42Z")
Can we just talk about the questions raised in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/16 "2016-11-29T17:05:16Z")
SCOTUS has ruled that [citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/17 "2016-11-29T17:16:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can we just talk about the questions raised in the OP? Without a radical restructuring of the government, to the point that the republic would cease to exist, a natural-born or naturalized citizen **cannot** lose said citizenship involuntarily. Therefore the OP’s question is meaningless, at least in the context presented. Now, if the situation changes to the point that it **has** meaning…well, I don’t think there is any precedent at all for what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/18 "2016-11-29T17:16:57Z")
I suppose then the law could be changed to define burning a flag as a voluntary act that indicates the intent to revoke citizenship. Somehow, I don’t think that would fly past SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/19 "2016-11-29T17:23:22Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > SCOTUS has ruled that [citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk). For the time being, it seems SCOTUS has eliminated the need for my questions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382/20 "2016-11-29T17:27:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Leaving aside all opinions about the man, my questions is this: If a natural citizen born in the United States has her/his citizenship revoked, what country(if any) are they then a citizen of, and where would they be deported to? It depends. If the person in question had claim to the citizenship of another country, they would retain that citizenship and presumably be deported there. If they did not, then they’d be stateless, a condition in which a person has no citizenship. Presumably they could be deported to any place willing to take them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/citizenship-question/773382.md?page=2)