# City mandated vs. free market trash collection **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181 "2011-08-02T15:28:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/41 "2011-08-03T07:20:29Z")
When five trucks are lumbering down the same street, who do you think pays for them? One way or another, you are paying for the four trucks you do not use. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/42 "2011-08-03T10:58:17Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Water and Sewer yes. Really? You really feel that there HAS to be government involvement in water and sewer? In my area we’re all wells and septic, that is private water and sewer, so it certainly can be done. Of course, we DO have rules limiting what companies can put in the ground so they don’t screw up everyone’s water wells - oh, the horror! Shackling private enterprise for the overall benefit of the community! Of course, where the government runs the water and sewer they often have the exact same rules. > [@](#): > > Trash service shouldn’t even come close. There’s little barrier to entry, start-up costs are minimal. etc. No need for a monopoly for trash service. My area has your trash service ideal - all free enterprise. Except a couple of the companies have gone out of business in recent years, and we’re down to two. Then we have the people who have lost their jobs and can no longer _afford_ to pay for trash service. Sure, they usually get foreclosed on or evicted within a few months (because even those who rent houses around here have to hire trash removal - it’s not automatic the landlord will do it for you unless it’s a multi-unit building) but during those months their trash isn’t picked up, so when they’re finally booted out there are small mountains of garbage in the backyard, or even sometime the front yard. Yeah, yeah, that works really well. And of course, it just _sits there forever_ because it’s no one’s responsibility. There is no mechanism for the local government to go in and clean it up, no one owns the place anymore (usually - in the case of rentals the landlord cleans it up but for private foreclosures no one does) and the neighbors get to enjoy the stench of rotting garbage. No, the neighbors either can’t afford a clean up either, or, because they aren’t the owners, they have no authority to clean up the mess. The trash companies only deal with the property owners or a legal tenant, they won’t clean up an abandoned lot under the auspices of the neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/43 "2011-08-03T11:25:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Really? You really feel that there HAS to be government involvement in water and sewer? In my area we’re all wells and septic, that is private water and sewer, so it certainly can be done. For most major municipalities, septic tanks and well water just aren’t going to be adequate to meet the needs of the population. Supplying New York, Southern California and Dallas with water means large public works programs and that usually means the government. Even in places where wells are common there is often government regulation. For example, in rural Colorado you are limited in how much water your well can pump on a daily basis and what you use it for. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/44 "2011-08-03T11:50:18Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The city provides garbage carts (standardized, designed for automated dumping), and handles all the billing (comes with your water bill) customer service, and requests for special item pickups. There is a base price, with discounts for people who recycle, and one for using a smaller cart. Garbage carts? That’s a new one on me. I’ve never encountered that term for garbage cans or containers or bins or receptacles. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/45 "2011-08-03T11:58:47Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > For most major municipalities, septic tanks and well water just aren’t going to be adequate to meet the needs of the population. Supplying New York, Southern California and Dallas with water means large public works programs and that usually means the government. Even in places where wells are common there is often government regulation. For example, in rural Colorado you are limited in how much water your well can pump on a daily basis and what you use it for. Ah, but he said “of course” for water and sewer as if it could _never_ be done on a private level, not qualifying “rural” vs. “urban”. Which was sort of my point - there are places where it could be done (though arguably government might be better). ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/46 "2011-08-03T12:29:32Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > For a given value of “deregulation”. Electricity and Gas “free market” is like having 1 garbage truck going down the street, but under contract with 5 other companies to pick up the trash from their customers too. Your local government approved monopoly is still delivering the product. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/47 "2011-08-03T14:58:14Z")
Has anybody looked over in GQ to learn about [Broomstick’s difficulties](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618657)in trying to pay someone to get rid of his mattresses? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/48 "2011-08-03T17:33:51Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Has anybody looked over in GQ to learn about [Broomstick’s difficulties](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618657)in trying to pay someone to get rid of his mattresses? Yes, this reminded me of that. I find it hard to understand his situation. Here in Minneapolis, we would just put the mattress next to the garbage cart, marked “For Garbage”, and the City would dispose of it (a limit of 2 such large items per week). ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/49 "2011-08-03T17:40:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Garbage carts? That’s a new one on me. I’ve never encountered that term for garbage cans or containers or bins or receptacles. Because they are carts – large heavy-duty plastic containers, on wheels, with an attached cover. [Like this.](http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/solid-waste/images/container-rental-special-1.gif) They are designed to be picked up & dumped automatically by a hydraulic lifter at the back of the truck. The city nearly covered the purchase costs of these containers, between the reduced medical expense for back injuries to workers, and faster collection of garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/50 "2011-08-03T18:08:13Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Because they are carts – large heavy-duty plastic containers, on wheels, with an attached cover. [Like this.](http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/solid-waste/images/container-rental-special-1.gif) Yes, that’s exactly what they look like here too, but as I said I’ve never heard the term “carts” in this context. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/51 "2011-08-03T18:08:37Z")
We actually have a city-run sanitation department, and I love it. Its cheaper then the commercial companies, and they actually do a good job (not leaving trash bins in the street, picking them up if they fall over, and the trucks are kept relatively clean). Also because of a recent development park that was developed and sold by the city they gave all residence half-off the service for two years. Disadvantages to the service do exist. There are only four times a year that they will pick-up bulk items. I would think a commercial outfit would let you schedule as the need arises. It is a big hassle to get a replacement bin, as I found out last year when some neighborhood toughs took ours for a stroll. I needed to file a police report, and only then would they replace it. It wound up being easier to just drive around the subdivision looking for it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/52 "2011-08-03T18:42:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Ah, but he said “of course” for water and sewer as if it could _never_ be done on a private level, not qualifying “rural” vs. “urban”. Which was sort of my point - there are places where it could be done (though arguably government might be better). I think you’re just picking nits at this point to give yourself a congratulatory pat on the back for your “got’cha” moment. The majority of us Americans live in urban areas not rural ones. Also, depending on the state, I would hazard a guess that most people living in rural areas actually get their water from a government source be it the county or a nearby municipality (but, hey, I could be wrong about that). You’re technically correct, which, to the best of my knowledge, is the best kind of correct to be. You don’t actually need the government to provide water or sewage to everybody. However, you certainly need them to provide it to most people in order for our modern civilization to exists. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181/53 "2011-08-03T21:21:42Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Just what is in it for the city to have one provider? Is it really wear and tear on the streets or more power to the fief of the fiefdom? Our county (Gwinnett County, just outside Atlanta) converted to a county service last year in which the county was carved up into several zones, each serviced by one of the existing private companies. (This solution was implemented to settle a $40m lawsuit, but that’s another story). One of the major reasons the county cited for taking control of the service was that a significant number of people were not paying for a private trash service - they were just dumping (illegally), resulting in eyesores. Our cost has gone up slightly, and more so if you use the optional yard waste service. There is now only one trash day, whereas we used to have trucks in the neighborhood several days a week, resulting in there being cans at the curb most weekdays. The downside is that I cannot fire my provider (a right I had exercised previously). So far, I have had no problems with the service. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-mandated-vs-free-market-trash-collection/591181.md?page=2)