# City of God is 92% on Rotten Tomatoes.. really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023 "2009-09-06T01:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/1 "2009-09-06T01:50:58Z")
So I’m working my way through the list of [The Decade’s 25 Most Essential Foreign Films](http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2009/06/the-25-must-see-foreign-films-since-2000.html) and I just watched City of God today, well, half of it. I found the film technically good and well edited, but I couldn’t bring myself to care about any of the characters. I don’t know whether it was the writing or the acting, but I couldn’t relate to any of the characters. Aside from the narrator, they’re all just violent thugs, robbing their way through life without a single redeeming feature among them. I felt nothing as I saw them being killed off, I didn’t feel good nor did I feel bad. The thugs killed and robbed so much, I didn’t feel sympathy when the corrupt cops beat them or killed them. I’m not asking for a cliche-riddled black-and-white, good guys versus bad guys movie. I just don’t see the point in a bad guys vs bad guys movie where none of the characters appear to have any redeeming features. Why is this movie rated 92% on Rotten Tomatoes? What have I missed? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/2 "2009-09-06T01:59:20Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > I’m not asking for a cliche-riddled black-and-white, good guys versus bad guys movie. To be honest, and no offence, I think that’s exactly what you are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/3 "2009-09-06T02:45:26Z")
If you don’t like stories about morally ambiguous characters, you probably won’t particularly enjoy _Let The Right One In_ or _Oldboy_ or _Gomorrah_… all of those have somewhat flawed protagonists. (Actually, there may be more on this list which are equally devoid of purely good/bad characters… but I haven’t seen all 25 yet) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/4 "2009-09-06T02:52:30Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > I found the film technically good and well edited, but I couldn’t bring myself to care about any of the characters. I don’t know whether it was the writing or the acting, but I couldn’t relate to any of the characters. Aside from the narrator, they’re all just violent thugs, robbing their way through life without a single redeeming feature among them. I felt nothing as I saw them being killed off, I didn’t feel good nor did I feel bad. The thugs killed and robbed so much, I didn’t feel sympathy when the corrupt cops beat them or killed them. > > I’m not asking for a cliche-riddled black-and-white, good guys versus bad guys movie. I just don’t see the point in a bad guys vs bad guys movie where none of the characters appear to have any redeeming features. > > Why is this movie rated 92% on Rotten Tomatoes? What have I missed? I think the political and cultural status quo are the bad guys in this film. You might gain a better understanding of it if you watch the documentary _Bus 174_. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/5 "2009-09-06T02:57:04Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > So I’m working my way through the list of [The Decade’s 25 Most Essential Foreign Films](http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2009/06/the-25-must-see-foreign-films-since-2000.html) and I just watched City of God today, well, half of it. > > I found the film technically good and well edited, but I couldn’t bring myself to care about any of the characters. I don’t know whether it was the writing or the acting, but I couldn’t relate to any of the characters. Aside from the narrator, they’re all just violent thugs, robbing their way through life without a single redeeming feature among them. I felt nothing as I saw them being killed off, I didn’t feel good nor did I feel bad. The thugs killed and robbed so much, I didn’t feel sympathy when the corrupt cops beat them or killed them. > > I’m not asking for a cliche-riddled black-and-white, good guys versus bad guys movie. I just don’t see the point in a bad guys vs bad guys movie where none of the characters appear to have any redeeming features. > > Why is this movie rated 92% on Rotten Tomatoes? What have I missed? FWIW, you are not alone in thinking that City Of God was an over-rated (though mildly interesting) indie that got buzz from the critics and was then fawned over by readers of Rolling Stone in an attempt to try and make them look sophisticated and hip… The Sundance Film Festival is chock full of similar examples, but City Of God just happened to take it to the next level. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/6 "2009-09-06T03:19:17Z")
I really liked the movie. It showed a slice of life that I never knew existed. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/7 "2009-09-06T03:21:20Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > To be honest, and no offence, I think that’s exactly what you are looking for. You think wrong. Some of my favourite films and TV shows have morally ambiguous characters such as _In Bruges_, _The Wire_, _The Shield_, _Memento_, etc. My point about bad guys is that for them to be interesting, they need to be a mix of grays rather than just pure black. My issue with the City of God characters is that they’re just going through liFe robbing and killing, there is no depth to them, no complexity. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/8 "2009-09-06T03:22:40Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > If you don’t like stories about morally ambiguous characters, you probably won’t particularly enjoy _Let The Right One In_ or _Oldboy_ or _Gomorrah_… all of those have somewhat flawed protagonists. > > (Actually, there may be more on this list which are equally devoid of purely good/bad characters… but I haven’t seen all 25 yet) My point is that they’re _not_ morally ambiguous, they’re just one-dimensional. Greedy and murderous. Incidentally I did watch Oldboy and mostly enjoyed it. My only criticism is that near the end the antagonist was almost too crazy, his punishment of the protagonist seemed far beyond what the protagonist’s actions may or may not have justified. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/9 "2009-09-06T04:56:54Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > I found the film technically good and well edited, but I couldn’t bring myself to care about any of the characters. I’d like to take this opportunity to deride this, what, this \*myth \*about the requirement of sympathetic characters. Not myth exactly, but someone apparently once said that a story requires a sympathetic character to work as a story, and suddenly there’s this meme that this is some kind of law. Using that as the sole item on your checklist of critical inquiry falls under the concept of having just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Before you learn any “rules” of criticism, you should first learn this: there are no rules of criticism. Sorry if that seems harsh, **macaenas** , it wasn’t really aimed at you; more at the concept in general. Do yourself a favor: let a movie be what it is, without any preconceptions of what it’s supposed to be. Let City of God just happen, let it tell the story it has to tell. There are plenty of stories, unfortunately–and usually this is kind of their main point–where there are no good guys; no sympathetic characters; everyone involved is doomed. This might be an interesting topic for a thread, in fact: great–or even good–movies that lack any really sympathetic characters. There are a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/10 "2009-09-06T05:05:10Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Before you learn any “rules” of criticism, you should first learn this: there are no rules of criticism. > > Sorry if that seems harsh, **macaenas** , it wasn’t really aimed at you; more at the concept in general. Do yourself a favor: let a movie be what it is, without any preconceptions of what it’s supposed to be. Let City of God just happen, let it tell the story it has to tell. Sure, that’s sound advice. But…if “the story it has to tell” doesn’t hold your interest, “what it will be” is: returned unfinished. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/11 "2009-09-06T06:33:14Z")
They’re not one dimensional. Just look at the stark contrast between the two young drug kingpins Benny and Li’l Zé. That Benny can be partners and best friends with the monstrous Zé, yet still be a genuinely hip and loving guy that yearns to rise above and escape the station he’s created for himself defies any mono-dimensional quality. And what about Knockout Ned’s complete decent from an honest hard-working citizen to the captain of thugs in a street war that grinds up children and his city? And even if the characters were one dimensional, and you’ve no one to identify with (which I don’t agree with - Buscapé/Rocket is our morally centered guide), the film is still excellent because of the richly told and plain informative capturing of people and place through multiple decades. There’s more to chew on in this film than so many others. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/12 "2009-09-06T07:55:34Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I’d like to take this opportunity to deride this, what, this \*myth \*about the requirement of sympathetic characters. Not myth exactly, but someone apparently once said that a story requires a sympathetic character to work as a story, and suddenly there’s this meme that this is some kind of law. > > Using that as the sole item on your checklist of critical inquiry falls under the concept of having just enough knowledge to be dangerous. > > Before you learn any “rules” of criticism, you should first learn this: there are no rules of criticism. > > Sorry if that seems harsh, **macaenas** , it wasn’t really aimed at you; more at the concept in general. Do yourself a favor: let a movie be what it is, without any preconceptions of what it’s supposed to be. Let City of God just happen, let it tell the story it has to tell. There are plenty of stories, unfortunately–and usually this is kind of their main point–where there are no good guys; no sympathetic characters; everyone involved is doomed. > > This might be an interesting topic for a thread, in fact: great–or even good–movies that lack any really sympathetic characters. There are a lot of them. I’m not criticizing this movie from a professional standpoint whereby I must adhere to a set of best practice rules. As far as I know you’re 100% correct about criticisms by professionals needing to avoid “myths” or some golden rules about what makes a good story. I don’t care. I’m stating that for me personally, this is what I need for me to enjoy and/or be immersed into what I consider a “good” story. If I can’t find anyway to empathize _or_ identify with characters in a movie then I find it difficult to care about what happens to them. I assumed that others would feel the same way but clearly I’m in the minority, but that doesn’t make my personal preferences “myths”. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/13 "2009-09-06T08:18:52Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Before you learn any “rules” of criticism, you should first learn this: there are no rules of criticism. So there are no rules of criticism… except don’t disagree with **Lissener**? :rolleyes: I agree with the OP, to an extent. I found Zé dull as hell, and that’s not just because he was a sociopath. I’m just fine with sociopathic characters, if they’re funny or impressive or have interesting goals, or if they just give me some reason to care if they’re on screen beyond waiting for them to die. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/14 "2009-09-06T13:23:23Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I’d like to take this opportunity to deride this, what, this \*myth \*about the requirement of sympathetic characters. Not myth exactly, but someone apparently once said that a story requires a sympathetic character to work as a story, and suddenly there’s this meme that this is some kind of law. > > Using that as the sole item on your checklist of critical inquiry falls under the concept of having just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Having at least some characters you actually care about / like / sympathize with / view with less than utter contempt makes it a whole lot easier to get into a movie. I don’t think he was attempting to declare that all movies must have sympathetic characters, but if they don’t, they better offer something else to engage you in those character’s stories, and it sounds like for him, City of God failed on that front. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/15 "2009-09-06T14:37:11Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I’d like to take this opportunity to deride this, what, this \*myth \*about the requirement of sympathetic characters. Not myth exactly, but someone apparently once said that a story requires a sympathetic character to work as a story, and suddenly there’s this meme that this is some kind of law. > (…) > Sorry if that seems harsh, **macaenas** , it wasn’t really aimed at you; more at the concept in general. Do yourself a favor: let a movie be what it is, without any preconceptions of what it’s supposed to be. > (…) FWIW I didn’t think the OP was judging a movie by how well it matched up to a set of personal rules. Rather he didn’t like the film and tried to explain why… and not caring about the characters can be a major problem with a film. It’s not inevitably fatal, but it usually not a good sign. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/16 "2009-09-06T16:45:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > So there are no rules of criticism… except don’t disagree with **Lissener**? :rolleyes: The rules in Cafe Society are strict: [no personal attacks](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6769918&postcount=3)on other posters. > [@](#): > > Personal insults are not permitted in this forum. You can insult an artistic work, you can say what you’d like about an awful movie or poem or TV show or concert. Within reasonable limits, you can insult the artist/creator/writer. But you may not insult the posters. And, yes, a sideswipe and a rolleyes are considered personal attacks. If you wish to disagree with the content of his post, feel free to do so, but leave your personal opinion of **lissener** out of it. twickster, Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/17 "2009-09-06T17:33:43Z")
Love the movie, then again I am a big fan of “gangster” movies. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/18 "2009-09-06T17:53:39Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > My point is that they’re _not_ morally ambiguous, they’re just one-dimensional. Greedy and murderous. I have to disagree - sure, Lil’ Ze is about as greedy and murderous and one-dimensional as they come, but even he gains a measure of humanity at Benny’s goodbye party (you did get that far, I hope?) And as **drastic\_quench** points out, there’s at least one character who starts off as anything but greedy and murderous. Knockout Ned’s storyline is downright heartbreaking by the end… though if you didn’t watch all the way through, you probably didn’t catch that part either. Frankly, I think you did yourself a disservice by giving up rather than watching to the end. To each their own, though. (and seriously, there’s a very good chance you’ll despise _Let The Right One In_… if you can’t find someone to connect to in this movie, then you’re totally SOL there) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/19 "2009-09-06T18:31:36Z")
An arc will sometime just look like a line until you follow it through to the conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023/20 "2009-09-07T13:53:07Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > I have to disagree - sure, Lil’ Ze is about as greedy and murderous and one-dimensional as they come, but even he gains a measure of humanity at Benny’s goodbye party (you did get that far, I hope?) > > And as **drastic\_quench** points out, there’s at least one character who starts off as anything but greedy and murderous. Knockout Ned’s storyline is downright heartbreaking by the end… though if you didn’t watch all the way through, you probably didn’t catch that part either. > > Frankly, I think you did yourself a disservice by giving up rather than watching to the end. To each their own, though. > > (and seriously, there’s a very good chance you’ll despise _Let The Right One In_… if you can’t find someone to connect to in this movie, then you’re totally SOL there) I didn’t get that far to reach either of those 2 events. I think I’ll give it another shot and see what happens. Thanks for the advice folks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-god-is-92-on-rotten-tomatoes-really/509023.md?page=2)