# City of Phila. is this legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672 "2011-05-12T16:58:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/21 "2011-05-13T16:56:57Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s horrid. Here in Texas, we have both county-based registration and state mandated safety inspection. > > If you let them lapse, the drill is to get pulled over, get your tickets, get your car inspected and registered, and go to the courthouse and get the tickets waived for a $20 fine each. > > At no point do they impound your car or anything draconian like that. Philthydelphia has some special problems, though. I lived there for 4 years. When I moved from western Pennsylvania to Philly, my car insurance cost skyrocketed. Can’t search for the stats right now, but the percentage of drivers without insurance/registration/etc is higher in Philly than other areas of Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/22 "2011-05-13T22:22:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s horrid. Here in Texas, we have both county-based registration and state mandated safety inspection. > > If you let them lapse, the drill is to get pulled over, get your tickets, get your car inspected and registered, and go to the courthouse and get the tickets waived for a $20 fine each. > > At no point do they impound your car or anything draconian like that. Well, that’s assuming your stuff is just expired and your car is actually safe to drive. If you have, say, a cracked windshield or squealing brakes or bald tires or something else that will flunk inspection and is pretty obvious, I don’t think they’re allowed to let you drive it home. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/23 "2011-05-13T22:27:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only other thing I can think you mean is that she doesn’t have a license yet. But, again, I’ve never seen a cop actually impound the car because of that. In California, I think the cops are _required_ to impound cars for that (I think for 30 days). ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/24 "2011-05-13T22:29:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yeah, I don’t get it either. You buy the car, it’s yours. Sure, you might not have gotten a license, but that just results in the police officer pulling you over and telling you to go get it registered, with maybe a ticket thrown in. You either take it right then, or you immediately go home, and don’t drive it again until you’ve got the license. > > The only other thing I can think you mean is that she doesn’t have a license yet. But, again, I’ve never seen a cop actually impound the car because of that. You just are required to get someone else out there to drive it. Or, in my sister’s case, the cop follows you back to the parking lot she started from (she was practicing driving in the parking lot, and wanted to go a little ways.) Sure, she got a ticket, and the cop tried to scare her to death, but nothing more. > > Is this atypical, or, as I suspect, is the story a bit more complicated? We had a case in my small town last week, where the kid was driving with no license, and the cops impounded the car. ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/25 "2011-05-13T23:57:43Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > In California, I think the cops are _required_ to impound cars for that (I think for 30 days). It looks like [you’re right](http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/impound.html). That page refers to California Vehicle Code Sections 14602.6 and 14607.6. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/26 "2011-05-14T19:40:28Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > But I really can’t complain, because registration is sort of the state’s way of keeping tabs of who the owner is, and if it’s not registered, then (officially, at least) it could be an unreported stolen vehicle, so I can’t blame them for impounding it. This was in New Jersey. The title is the state’s way of keeping tabs of who the owner is. Annual registration is a tax collection system, and in some states serves secondary purpose of keeping track of emissions and safety issues. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/27 "2011-05-14T20:09:07Z")
I got this from the Philly impound web site. The fees really add up. From the wording, it looks like there is an appeals process for adjudication of the tow and storage charges, Why don’t you call the traffic court and ask? \*Please note that you must present the following to the staff at the Impoundment Lot before your vehicle will be returned to you: Your valid driver’s license Current vehicle registration Proof of current insurance for the vehicle Cashier’s receipt(s) along with the accompanying BAA/PVB Release Authorization for payment and/or adjudication of the tow and storage charges Release authorization from the Philadelphia Traffic Court (only applies to vehicles impounded through Live Stop) Vehicles under 11,000 pounds - Straight tows Boot Fee - $150.00 Tow Fee - $150.00 Storage Fee: $18.00 plus 20% tax for every 24 hours Please note, until you receive the title, you cannot register or insure your vehicle, and IT IS ILLEGAL TO OPERATE OR STORE AN UNREGISTERED OR UNINSURED VEHICLE ON A PUBLIC ROADWAY IN PENNSYLVANIA. Please make arrangements in advance for your vehicle to be stored in an off-street garage or lot while your title is processed. If your vehicle is observed on a public roadway before it is registered and insured, it can be impounded. \* ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/28 "2011-05-14T20:13:51Z")
Sounds like the car was impounded under “Live Stop”. In Philadelphia, a vehicle driven on public roads that is unregistered or driven by someone with no or a suspended/revoked license is subject to immediate impound, with all impound fees in addition to the fine for the underlying violation. It is enforced by the Philadelphia Police Department. After 21 days, the car is auctioned off. What probably happened is that the daughter purchased the vehicle in a private sale and neither she nor the seller knew or followed the correct procedure for transferring a vehicle. In Pennsylvania, it must be performed at an authorized tag agent, who records the title transfer and issues a temporary registration and plate. Proof of insurance and payment of all fees and sales tax are required at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/29 "2011-05-14T22:01:20Z")
Live Stop doesn’t mess around. The city really has been trying to deal with the uninsured/unregistered problem. Whether or not this program is best way to handle it is something for Great Debates. The only thing you can do is contact a lawyer. In fact, [this lawyer](http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_localphi/20110401/ts_yblog_localphi/attorney-sues-philadelphia-after-daughter-stranded-by-live-stop) is already suing the city because he claims the cops stranded his daughter in West Philly after towing the car. Maybe you can join in the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/30 "2011-05-14T22:21:44Z")
It sounds like Philly has a great scam going on. There’s no reason they can’t handle uninsured or expired tags like anywhere else in the country. But why do that when there is money to be made? The OP didn’t state what laws were violated, but it seems pretty punitive to have an entire car forfeited AND a deficiency judgment for failure to get tags properly transferred. Even though she did screw up, that’s much too harsh. And $750 a month for storage? I would expect a butler to wipe it with a lint-free cloth every day for that kind of price. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/31 "2011-05-15T23:12:13Z")
I hate threads where the OP never comes back to tell us more info. It’s only three days so far, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/32 "2011-05-16T00:14:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > It sounds like Philly has a great scam going on. There’s no reason they can’t handle uninsured or expired tags like anywhere else in the country. But why do that when there is money to be made? > > The OP didn’t state what laws were violated, but it seems pretty punitive to have an entire car forfeited AND a deficiency judgment for failure to get tags properly transferred. Even though she did screw up, that’s much too harsh. > > And $750 a month for storage? I would expect a butler to wipe it with a lint-free cloth every day for that kind of price. Other cities and states have similar impound laws, Philly just decided to enforce the laws rather than handing drivers a ticket and a small box of chocolates for troubling them. The city also learned that people who don’t bother or don’t have money to register or insure cars also tend not to pay tickets. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/33 "2011-05-16T00:22:43Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Philthydelphia has some special problems, though. I like that, Philthydelphia. It is the lesser half of the state, folks. Here’s to hoping the OP can join the lawyer suing the city for stranding his daughter in West Philly. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/34 "2011-05-16T01:11:54Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I hate threads where the OP never comes back to tell us more info. It’s only three days so far, but still… Maybe he’s busy with his [other car-related legal issue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608238) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/35 "2011-05-16T01:45:56Z")
> [@Neptunian\_Slug](#): > > The city also learned that people who don’t bother or don’t have money to register or insure cars also tend not to pay tickets. People can get away with not paying tickets? Here I am paying my parking tickets like a sucker. If only cities and states could come up with a system to punish people who don’t pay tickets, maybe that would work? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![zephyr9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9fc348/32.png) [@zephyr9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zephyr9)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/36 "2011-07-21T00:44:29Z")
Hi, it’s the OP here… I’m still learning how to use this forum…I really appreciate all the input. This has taught me to keep checking the message board throughout THE DAY…(always too busy, singlemom3kids, you know the deal…) but, Yeah, she ran into some glitch while she was insuring and registering it, the glitch wasn’t her fault, but it held her up making the car legal, she drove it before all her ducks were in a row and bam, she got caught and they took it. The explanation makes sense that the impound fees were more than the sale of the car. I don’t know all the details and I don’t want to know. It’s her issue. If she never makes a dumb mistake like that again in her life, and I don’t think she will, it was a bargain of a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/37 "2011-07-21T00:58:39Z")
> [@zephyr9](#): > > I hope someone can shed some light, or point us in a direction… > My 17-y.o. daughter saved her money and bought her first car, then made the terrible mistake of driving it before she got it legal. She got pulled over. > They impounded her car, and she got $800 in tickets. Fair enough. > The problem is this: after the city sold the vehicle at auction, she is now being charged with storage fees of almost $1,000. > It was a very expensive learning experience for her…still and all, it doesn’t seem right that after she’s paid her tickets AND they sold her vehicle, she still has to pay for storage for it. Shouldn’t the money the city collected on the sale of her vehicle be part of the payment of these penalties? > It is just too much for one dumb teenage mistake, IMO. > Who could she speak with about this? It is already in collections. Any help appreciated!!! > Thx! 47% of Americans don’t pay any taxes. Thanks for chipping in! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/38 "2011-07-21T01:11:16Z")
47% of Americans have never purchased anything before? That’s anti-capitalist! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/39 "2011-07-21T03:59:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > 47% of Americans have never purchased anything before? That’s anti-capitalist! He probably means income taxes. And if you think about it, that seems about right. About 20% is children under 16 – most do not earn enough to pay income taxes. And 10-15% is retired people, living off Social Security & their retirement funds – many of them do not pay much income taxes either. Add in the unemployed & underemployed population, and people with really low-paying jobs, and it seems quite possible to reach 47% not paying income taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672/40 "2011-07-21T05:13:58Z")
> [@zephyr9](#): > > …Yeah, she ran into some glitch while she was insuring and registering it, the glitch wasn’t her fault, but it held her up making the car legal, she drove it before all her ducks were in a row and bam, she got caught and they took it. > The explanation makes sense that the impound fees were more than the sale of the car. I don’t know all the details and I don’t want to know. It’s her issue. If she never makes a dumb mistake like that again in her life, and I don’t think she will, it was a bargain of a lesson. Some of life’s lesson can be expensive. But she is only 17 and blaming it all on her is unfair, especially for a parent to state as such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/city-of-phila-is-this-legal/581672.md?page=3)